0.5.2 Feedback Thread

There wasn’t any thread for this so I made one.

This is the feedback thread for Thrive 0.5.2.

My feedback:

  • Chloroplast or thylakoids should give more glucose than their currount amount.
  • The help menu should be categorized into several tutorial/tips titles. Whenever the player would click on them, they could see the content.
  • Compounds should be diversified a little bit, else there won’t be many alternatives to glucose clouds.
  • Cells should emit their exceeding compounds, which would implicitly allow “passive” symbiosis.
  • Attributing scientific units to their respective variables (e.g. nm/s to speed, mol to compounds) would give a bit more scientific immersion.
  • Bug: Double membrane tooltip shows amount of ‘+0’.
  • Bug: Some patches with “0% hydrogen sulfide” actually have this kind of compound.
  • Bug: Compound clouds are sometimes heavily pixelated.
  • Bug: Compound clouds apparently have lightning (they often keep flashing).
  • Bug: Some audio artifacts may occur from time to time (found with V-Moda quality headphones).
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This is actually not a bug. This is rather a bug fix. The double membrane is the one that has all of the values as defaults, all the other organelles have differences to what they have.
But maybe membrane tooltips should show the values related to the currently selected membrane?

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+1 to the suggestion of adding scientific measurements to stuff like speed and cell mass. We’re gonna have to introduce accurate measurements at some point, might as well do so early on in the game.

Also a very minor fix: the help menu claims 150 Myr pass in every editor session, but the number at the top of the Report goes up by only 100 Myr each time.

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So, thrive 5.2 is a major improvement over the previous version (5.1.1? I forget already, whoops) in my opinon. I’m going to try and not turn this post into a multiparagraph essay, but sometimes I just have too much to say.

First off, compounds are much more reliably spawned, making heterotrophy actually viable. Even when I started getting really big (towards my 15th and beyond evolution; I played until the game said I “won”), I never had too much trouble with keeping my compound levels up.

A rough retelling of my evolution path

I spent my first 5 or so evolutions as a prokaryote, building up a fair amount of prokaryotic proteins and cytoplasm to ensure I had enough of everything for the nucleus. I started as a chemotroph in this phase, abusing the frequency at which hydrogen sulfide spawned.

Once I got the nucelus, I began to focus on energy economy and flagella, rushing the surface to begin using chloroplasts. I never got to complete autotrophy, but they helped keep me alive in the rare instance there were no compounds around for a good few screen lengths. I also played around with nitrogenase around this time, but it never really got much further than 3 or so proteins.

As I got to the surface, I pushed for a lot of energy economy, storage, and speed (flagella). The end result was a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none type cell, that could eat basically anything it came across (I had added one rusticyanin just to say I could eat iron) and would move along, sifting materials from the medium it’s moving in.

I’d almost argue some compounds are a little too common, especially when staying in a “patch” of resources (for example, I’d move through a cloud of glucose, only to discover phosphates and ammonia, only to turn around and see that the patch of glucose behind me had spawned a bunch of iron, glucose, and hydrogen sulfide right around it), though it definitely keeps the pace of the game fairly quick and competitive.
I’d say either try and make it so the game spaces out resources a little more, or make it so other cells are more frequent in patches so you have to work harder to get the resources you’re competing for.

Another quirk of the new system is just that surviving is overall a lot easier. in my 80-ish minutes of playtime, I only died once overall (just due to bad luck with glucose spawns, after I left the first area was a bunch of hydrogen sulfide but before I got to the lit zones), compared to dying 1-4 times per generation in older versions. The pace was overall faster and much less frustrating, and I can’t wait to jump back in and do it all over again.

The game feels much easier, but in a good way. You can still die if you have bad luck, but overall there’s not much to worry about. It feels like it’s more balanced for player enjoyment, where the player has a much higher success rate. That said, though, I’m not sure how easy is too easy for the devs, so I’m just trying to tell my experience rather than how I’d change it.

EDIT: Reporting what seems to be a bug; the cave patch says it has 4% hydrogen sulfide, but I didn’t find a single spawn in about a half hour of playing.
I’ve also had a couple of random crashes that I can’t find note of in the logs. Not sure if this is just my computer being old and crappy or a problem with the game.

2 Likes

Honestly, I love the game so far and have already beaten it, and I can’t wait for when we actually get more stages, but is it possible for the downloads to also be on somewhere other than github, such as actually on the website itself? Because most of the time for me, github is just blocked and wont work and there’s nothing I can do about it, so I can’t even update the game, so it would be very helpful if the downloads were actually on somewhere other than github and it would make sense for you to download it from the website itself instead of another website too.

Do you mean all compounds? Cells do already eject the things they don’t need. It would be a waste of resources to let processes produce too much stuff and eject the excess.

Aren’t they always pixelated? They simulate fluid dynamics at a certain resolution that is way lower than what the game renders at to get away with running that simulation on the CPU.

Noticed this on stream as well:

Also heard some sound problems while playing on stream.
https://github.com/Revolutionary-Games/Thrive/issues/1706

The speed is just entirely arbitrary calculated from a bunch of stuff, it doesn’t even necessarily properly correlate to the speed in-game. But cell mass should be pretty easy to do:
https://github.com/Revolutionary-Games/Thrive/issues/1707

Already planned to be tweaked:
https://github.com/Revolutionary-Games/Thrive/issues/1550

There is some random crashing in the game without any logs. I’m putting the blame on godot just randomly crashing when a physics contact happens. There have been open issues for it since like 0.5.0:
https://github.com/Revolutionary-Games/Thrive/issues/1282

The reason it’s not put on the website is that serving a lot of big downloads needs quite a bit of bandwidth. So we would need either dedicated download servers, or we need to have a CDN in front and pay for bandwidth. Just for the release candidate downloads it cost 11 cents, which by itself isn’t that large but thinking about the future, we might need to spent up to (once the game is bigger) 50 bucks a month to have a couple of thousand downloads at a few gigs per game download. That’s something I kinda want to avoid “wasting” the Patreon money on. We provide downloads for patrons to play devbuilds which are paid for by the Patreon money.

I have two actual solutions:

  • We could provide an official torrent file (which we developers would seed for at least some time) for people to download the game. This has the slight problem that if only people who can’t access Github want to download the game there wouldn’t be enough seeders.
  • The game is put on steam (with a price tag to collect some financial support towards hiring developers to work on the game). This might actually have to happen anyway if our file sizes get so big that Github no longer wants to host them.

Edit: looks like the limit is 2 GB (https://docs.github.com/en/free-pro-team@latest/github/managing-large-files/distributing-large-binaries). So in the future as I imagine the finished game size will be closer to 10 GB, we can’t distribute premade builds on github.

I imagine that in that future we’ll have steam as the primary method to get the game (with compiling the game yourself being always an option), with a backup torrent file as I described before.

Also I wanted to mention that the thrive license does not prohibit any fans from setting up mirror downloads, but I won’t officially link to them unless their safety can be guaranteed.

2 Likes

0.5.2 is pretty good, it added a lot of new stuff. There are a few bugs here and there, which is normal in every game release. Here is one i’ve noticed.

  • Bug: Patch screen atmosphere does not add up. Nitrogen says 78% instead of 70%.
    Must be a typo.
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After playing the game a bit more I think I now have some more substantial stuff to add:

  1. I don’t think the glucose spawn rate is working correctly. Despite the report stating that glucose has been reduced by 20% at every generation, the patch screen does not show a reduction in glucose, nor do I encounter less glucose in the game. This defeats the purpose of evolving to become an autotroph or predator, because food is always easy to come by.

  2. The cloud spawning system is still a bit weird. It seems like more clouds are being spawned somewhere the longer I hang around there. Because of this I can often stay in one place more or less indefinitely as new clouds keep being spawned there. In the current state of the game actually travelling and searching for clouds is a stupid idea.

  3. Speaking of the spawning system, cells don’t seem to spawn in a way that makes sense either. Cells only ever spawn when I’m travelling large distances, which almost never happens because of point 2. It might surprise you to learn that in most of my playthroughs I do not encounter any cell of another species before winning the game. This is obviously not intended and sort of ruins the whole auto-evo system. I just have to take the patch map’s word for it that there’s apparently multiple very successful species in my patch; I’ve never seen them.

  4. Finally, I think it would make the game much more fun if the patch conditions were dynamic, rather than constants. So for example, maybe when plants evolve a great oxygenation event could occur, or some disaster like a volcano/meteor could blot out the sun. This would give the player an incentive to keep adapting to the environment. Right now, I only ever really use the editor in the first couple cycle’s. Once I have made a cell that I like there is no reason to ever change it again. Nothing ever really happens. I think it would be better if there were things that could change up the gameplay for a while, forcing the player to continue evolving. Competition could also help with this if only the other cells would actually spawn.

2 Likes
Then why don’t we see the compounds clouds getting out of the cell? Why don’t I see any cell trying to stick with me? Is it because I don’t produce enough compound? We might need another rebalancing on production versus maximal storage.
It’s because it would be cool to link scientific accuracy with the gameplay.

I approve this message.

Side note: It’d be cool if there was an option in the betas to roll back to older versions or maybe even have access to dev builds, which would only be available for Patreon donators. However, I’m not quite sure how this would be possible. I think that users can actually enter a code to get access to a beta, so that could be one way for dev builds.

I’ve never encountered this issue…

… nor that one.

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Might I ask that if you guys are ever gonna fix this?

The vent amounts have been reduced so far that it doesn’t really result in visible clouds.
Also the AI is not smart enough / that’s not how run and tumble works. I haven’t looked at the algorithm in detail but I think it works like this:

  • Move in a random direction
  • If absorbed compound amount is going up, continue going forward instead of randomly moving.

Good luck coming up with the math for that.
I have no idea how you would accurately calculate the resulting speed for a cell without like running the physics engine in the background and testing how fast it goes. And even that’s quite difficult to do.

I’m not sure what exactly you are talking about here.
Currently devbuild supporters can play any previous Thrive commit since the devbuild system was setup, just by finding the hash for the commit and putting it in: https://wiki.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/wiki/File:Launcher_specific_hash_select.png

Of course there’s a few limitations like non-important builds being deleted after 90 days, and if a commit has style issues it won’t be built into a devbuild.

have you tried without the chromatic aberration? That adds a little bit of barrel distortion that isn’t taken into account by the mouse hover position. Can’t really think of any other reason how that could happen.

No, I mean like the units would make sense, according to how the gameplay works. In other words, it would be “lore-wise”. A cell’s speed would probably be measured in nm/s or lesser units rather than in m/s.
The quantity of compounds such as iron, ammonia and others would be measured in mol.
I’m kinda confused. I just mean that a pre-release would be available as a beta for Patreon donators on Steam (like the one you shared for 0.5.2).
But I kinda get the point. It might not be as useful as I thought.

But currently those aren’t used right? The speed doesn’t have any unit currently as it is basically “thrive cell speed units”, because as I mentioned before that they don’t fully relate to the actual speed of the cell.

It’s probably because it would make the UI a lot more cluttered if mol was shown in the compound storage around and processes, that it isn’t shown.

The pre-release RCs are public because the whole point is to try to do bug hunting with many people.

I don’t see why a beta version would need to be provided through steam as all devbuild downloads already don’t go through github at all (I suppose you’ll have to download the launcher from there, but once you get that you can download devbuilds just fine even if you are IP banned by Github).

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Well, if Thrive were put on Steam, would the people who already have it downloaded still have to pay for it or what?

If they wanted the steam version, yes. It’s mainly going to be like a convenience thing to be able to download the game through steam, and support the development with a onetime payment. As long as the releases aren’t too big they are most likely also going to be put up on github like before.

Which is supposed to be hard? It’s a common high school physics question.
At maximum speed the force the cell is exerting to move = the drag force from water:

F(cell) = F(drag) = 0.5 * ρ * v^2 * CD * A
solve for v: v = sqrt((0.5 * ρ * CD * A) / F(cell))

Where: ρ = density of water = 997 kg / m^3
CD ~= drag coefficient of sphere = 0.5
A = hexes the cell is wide at the widest point. (convert to meters)

All we really need to come up with is a conversion factor from hexes to metric and the math will tell the rest.

Except the drag force is (Godot to bullet converted linear damp) 2.46

Equation time!

f(cell) = f(drag) = 2.46 \times \rho \times v^2 \times CD \times A
v = \sqrt{\frac {2.46 \times \rho \times CD \times A} {f(cell)}}
Also, shouldn’t it be measured in nm and lesser subunits?

I’m doing a “Thrive without evolving or migrating” run, and my immediate thoughts are:

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I had that problem too. I think hhyyrylainen posted about this earlier.

Checking…

Here.

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