# 0.5.8 Feedback thread
**URL:** https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592
**Category:** Current Game
**Tags:** thread-of-the-week
**Created:** [April 16, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592 "2022-04-16T18:16:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@hhyyrylainen](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/hhyyrylainen)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2022, 6:56am UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/21 "2022-04-18T06:56:30Z")
I meant it as a joke… and part of it was that it was like a fraction of how many changes you can make, so once again sadly the maximum value would be 1. Similarly to how it doesn’t make sense for a probability to be over 1, it doesn’t make sense to be able to make more changes than the maximum.
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/23 "2022-04-20T00:02:40Z")
In fact, an idea I just had is to stop showing organelles for smaller cells altogether while playing. Removing collision between them could also be a further optimization as large groups of them also cause lag.
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/24 "2022-04-20T00:51:34Z")
It is also worth noting that it is possible to get stuck inside of one of your larger builds after multiplying.
I suggest making the split make both cells unicellular in order to keep that from happening.
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/25 "2022-04-19T23:45:28Z")
Okay, so… As someone who has a BEEFY computer, the fact that the multicellular stage lags my computer so hard is a very large issue. The multicellular stage should be optimized. I believe this could be caused by the fact that my computer is having to draw so many polygons. I feel that this stage should automatically zoom out a bit and therefore simplify the organelles of the cells. This could also simplify the soft-body sim of the cells (If they’re using one). I have not looked at the source code at all, so I don’t know what’s causing the issue yet. I’m just spouting ideas I know work well to reduce lag. I also suggest looking through the code itself to try to optimize processes from there. I have some experience in game development, but not enough to know all the ins and outs of optimization.
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/26 "2022-04-19T23:49:44Z")
There’s also the chance my theories are wrong. I could be wrong about the poly rendering. It could also be the other cell’s ai that could be causing lag.
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### Author:  [@TeaKing](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TeaKing)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/27 "2022-04-19T23:50:38Z")
im pretty sure this is the wrong thread for this, try the 0.5.8 feedback thread maybe?
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/28 "2022-04-19T23:51:45Z")
Yeah probably. I’ll copy and paste it there.
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### Author:  [@hhyyrylainen](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/hhyyrylainen)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 6:55am UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/29 "2022-04-20T06:55:29Z")
I’m nearly certain that you are wrong about what is the performance sink, I’d love to see any profiling numbers or numbers from when you turned off those things you think are the performance sinks.
I’ve done my own profiling and turning off gameplay features, I posted a link very recently:
> [@Urchin-Issue (lots of floating organelles cause lag)](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/urchin-issue-lots-of-floating-organelles-cause-lag/4595/6):
>
> I don’t think that rendering is the bottleneck at all. You can see my profiling results here: Note especially what things I’ve tried disabling and gotten basically no performance change with them: I’ve tried disabling AI, rendering microbe graphics other than the player, and disabling microbe sound. Those have no impact on the performance. It seems that around 30% of total time is taken up by physics and Godot scene tree updates, with 10% being our C# physics callbacks.
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/30 "2022-04-20T12:24:22Z")
Yes. I actually noticed that after I posted these. But something I can note is that the player model size is correlated with lag. However, there does seem to be a limit in which lag stabilizes to a certain extent. It might be the resources that cause it but I don’t have the necessary resources to test this. It could also be the variables within each of the cells on the screen, or even in the background. I’m going to run a test where I limit the size of the microbe to see if I still see the lag.
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 12:31pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/31 "2022-04-20T12:31:37Z")
I’m going to try to go into a deeper look once I get home. Something to note: The bgm/Sfx (I wasn’t paying much attention to SFX so I don’t know if it has any) also lags which leads me to believe something audio-wise might be causing it. I’ll see about turning the volumes all the way down. If you can run the same test but with the code for the audio disabled or removed entirely we can compare the results.
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/32 "2022-04-20T12:40:03Z")
_ **Disclaimer:** _
All of my theories were plausible. None of them were correct. Looking at the logs tomorrow to save the devs some time. Please be patient I have SOME idea of what I am doing. Not much.
I work with audio and music every day and I know that bitrate drops when there are too many processes happening at once. It could be the AISO that the engine uses (which depends on the sample rate (How many things play at once)) So A variable for how many “Voices” could play at the same time would give you complete control over testing for this purpose. I also suggest reducing the quality of audio files if this is the case.
Here’s the logs from gameplay. A couple of errors, I think. After going through my notes on my little speedrun. I think that the errors were what caused the lag, as my CPU stayed at around 50% usage while my GPU stayed at around 36%. Disk usage stayed at around 0-2% when it started to lag. The fact that my computer wasn’t straining to run while it was lagging indicates that something is looping somewhere in the background when it doesn’t need to be looping.
I recognise this issue from a lot of game engines. (Still possible based off of the errors) Most have made it harder to make “Repeat indefinite” lines but not all. I don’t know about the engine Thrive runs on so I couldn’t say for sure if that’s the issue. One thing that’s caused a lot of programmers(Jonny Lonach) to move from unity to unreal engine is the fact that unreal can handle larger projects. I’m not saying this is the issue now (because it isn’t) but in the future Thrive might have to change game engines again in order to run smoothly. I could be wrong entirely I only have some minor experience in coding. (~3 years)
I know I’m adding a Ton of edits but old knowledge is coming back to me. Also a disclaimer: I have not actually coded anything in the past 5 months so I am missing like 90% of what I know. Don’t take everything I say as fact as I am most probably wrong here. (It was) As I said above, I work mostly with audio. That’s partially why I’m not sure about what could be causing all of this. I’m just suggesting things I think might be causing it based off of my experiences when I did code a lot. (Possible things that could lag in simular ways that happened.)
Okay I’m tired and feel like torturing myself so here’s what a minute of looking at the logs did: Based off of what I experienced I can finally conclude that… The issue is actually trying to eat other organisms. Something’s gone wrong somewhere that’s caused eating other organisms in a haphazardly way to cause an error that overwrites areas of the logging process immediately (Literally interrupting sentences). This causes a loop where other cells that evolved this behavior off of the player cell will also trigger an error like this but it isn’t brought up in the log for some reason. This causes a chain reaction that eventually leads to a lot of lag that looks/acts like an accidental loop, interrupts data (i.e. variables like ATP and glucose (Which yes, they were lagging too) and guess what else? Audio!) and it also causes a perceived performance drop because each error is being processed before each frame by the game engine. THUS MY COMPUTER’S RESOURCES AREN’T USED IN THE PROCESS!!!
I think I figured it out. Try fixing whatever causes that error. And then we can see if that fixes the lag. If it doesn’t, I’ll take a deeper dive into the actual data. That covers all the experiences in game along with my computer’s resource usage during that time.
An example of a playthrough WITH lag:
> **[Thrive 0.5.8 Log Lagged](https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Pajk-q-ZwTLK5FtvdMSpwRh1KqEjG3ir_P5zxYUE1c/edit?usp=sharing)**
>
> Process Started Godot Engine v3.4.2.stable.mono..45eaa2daf - https://godotengine.org OpenGL ES 3.0 Renderer: GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with Max-Q Design/PCIe/SSE2 OpenGL ES Batching: ON Mono: Log file is:...
An example of a playthrough WITHOUT lag:
> **[Thrive 0.5.8 Log No Lag](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w8CmDT5aVdftyRvZFymf7S1baEb3JjWpHo2QrdThQ6A/edit?usp=sharing)**
>
> Playing Thrive 0.5.8 Thrive is running. Log output: Process Started Godot Engine v3.4.2.stable.mono..45eaa2daf - https://godotengine.org OpenGL ES 3.0 Renderer: GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with Max-Q Design/PCIe/SSE2 OpenGL ES Batching: ON Mono: Log file is:...
Clearly the errors have SOMETHING to do with it. I’m not sure what causes them though. I’ll have to figure that out tomorrow.
(Most recent edit: Disclaimer “:”)
(Most recent edit 2 electricboogaloo: Clarifying things before I get misunderstood.)
(Edit: Based)
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### Author:  [@Underfishagain](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Underfishagain)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/33 "2022-04-20T12:51:01Z")
What are your plans to fix eukaryotic life not branching off from you?
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### Author:  [@TheBeholder](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/TheBeholder)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 12:26pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/34 "2022-04-21T12:26:07Z")
I got a professional to look over the logs instead. I was right on this. “Okay I’m tired and feel like torturing myself so here’s what a minute of looking at the logs did: Based off of what I experienced I can finally conclude that… The issue is actually trying to eat other organisms. Something’s gone wrong somewhere that’s caused eating other organisms in a haphazardly way to cause an error that overwrites areas of the logging process immediately (Literally interrupting sentences). This causes a loop where other cells that evolved this behavior off of the player cell will also trigger an error like this but it isn’t brought up in the log for some reason. This causes a chain reaction that eventually leads to a lot of lag that looks/acts like an accidental loop, interrupts data (i.e. variables like ATP and glucose (Which yes, they were lagging too) and guess what else? Audio!) and it also causes a perceived performance drop because each error is being processed before each frame by the game engine. THUS MY COMPUTER’S RESOURCES AREN’T USED IN THE PROCESS!!!”
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### Author:  [@hhyyrylainen](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/hhyyrylainen)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-5-8-feedback-thread/4592/35 "2022-04-21T13:31:05Z")
Uhh, yeah, I’m not going to understand that… if you want to show something that would improve things, please open a PR showing off your changes.
In other news I did today a PR that improves the game performance quite a bit (turns out the despawn logic could not keep up with all of the stuff spawning in the game):
>
>
> \*\*Brief Description of What This PR Does\*\*
> Adds a new metrics display to see ga…me entity counts
> Fixes some pretty glaring problems in the despawning system
>
> \*\*Related Issues\*\*
>
> \