Seems to be a translation thing since the English translation say it produces atp[1]
English:
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Energy ↩︎
Seems to be a translation thing since the English translation say it produces atp[1]
English:
Energy ↩︎
Statement: I don’t think it is possible to make a thermosyntheser outside the vents without modyfing. At 23ºC (max temperature outside the vents), silica/calcium and osmorregulation modifier 1, the osmorregulation cost is always higher than the energy produced by the organelles.
Suggestion: I think it would be good to have some way pure thermosynthesers could thrive outside the vents and without putting osmorregulation modifiers way down, even if they are pratically immobile. Maybe we could have ER/golgi organelles that make the osmorregulation cost lower.
Edit: Btw I loved the advanced settings menu when you start a new playthrough
At 0,4 you can survive as pure thermosyntheser but you need more than 150 thermoplasts
At 0,3 you can with a nucleo and 77 thermoplasts
At 0,2 you can with nucleo and 39 thermoplasts
So you can’t survive outside the vents with a non nuclear pure thermosyntheser
Cells with pili poke me immediately upon ejecting me/being ejected after a failed engulfing. Maybe give cells some post-engulfment I-frames where they can neither take nor receive damage.
Ending engulf mode early by mistake forces you to completely eject food before trying again. It would be nice if pressing the engulf button mid-ejection allowed you to immediately start engulfing again without having to spit it out and start from scratch. EDIT 3: No longer the case.
I sometimes spawn overlapping a friendly cell. We don’t damage each other, but it makes moving extraordinarily difficult until I manage to shake free.
In the pre-release candidate, I noticed AI microbes were chasing and eating things they could not digest. I don’t know to what extent this is still happening, but I have seen small microbes trying to eat things that are too big for them.
New procedural patch map is really neat but not very intuitive. I assume this will be improved.
Being able to pick up in another patch after going extinct is really nice.
Now that attention is being paid to rotation, and especially now that rotating takes energy, I think it’s a good time to suggest decoupling cell rotation from the pointer’s location. At least, make it so that you have to right/left click on the screen to make your cell turn towards the pointer. Right now, moving your cursor to press the multiply/evolve button, or hover over a resource or another microbe to see what it is, inevitably causes unintentional rotation which can be disruptive and sometimes even dangerous.
EDIT:
I don’t think it is possible to make a thermosyntheser outside the vents without modyfing.
It’s definitely not. As you said, it costs more energy to osmoregulate than it provides. Thermosynthesis is supposed to be changed in the future to depend on energy gradients within patches, probably making it more viable in some patches. However, I think it will still not be viable everywhere.
(Actually, I don’t know how steep the temperature gradient is expected to be in the arctic patch, but that would be a good location for similar sort of salt/halosynthetic system due to a high salt gradient between the saline seawater and fresh meltwater.)
EDIT 2: Actually, it hadn’t occurred to me to use a different membrane. It seems it is possible, barely, to survive in 23º C.
Also, I think cilia should also increase speed or at least make so you don’t get slower for using them.
I second this. Some real-life cells depend entirely on cilia for locomotion.
I agree it shouldn’t be able to survive everywhere, but it should be able to survive in more than one environment.
I tried to do the “Make that cell” and play as the cell. It barely could move
please dont double post
You’ll need to show that it is actually possible. The reason why thermoplasts are only usable in the vents is trying to follow (some) science realism even though it is a non-LAWK part.
Please do not double post. I see it way too much recently so I will issue warnings about it very quickly and potentially bans if you can’t follow the rules. Specifically rule 8:
Do not double post unless you have a good reason. Edit your post instead.
Tidepools should only be able to connect to coastal regions, because a tidepool going straight to an epipelagic region dosent make much sense, because how could a tidepool be near an area thats not near a coast?
Islands. Also just generally steep coastal formations, once you’re past the beach you’ve made it to the epipelagic.
That makes sense, but when the coastal patch right next to the tidepool can’t connect to the epipelagic but the tidepool can it makes no sense.
I actually agree on that point
As a question for 0.5.9 release, would it be possible for seed to generate a planet with single “region”?
Well looks like when the people who changed the patch map visuals modified the code, they forgot to keep the former patch connection logic.
If youve seen the first iterations of its visuals youll see that its different now than it was before release.
Before, a coastal always had a connection, maybe to another coastal even, if the body of water was small enough.
nope, its not. Theres a lower limit to region generation. If i remember right 3-4 regions, minimum.
If you for example have a planetary ocean/continent, theres alot of small biomes that would be separated and wouldnt be included in a single region.
Sorry everyone, this is going to be a long one.
Overall really fun experience to be playing once again! Addition of the procedural patch map adds a lot of re-playability and the continuing progress on the prototype makes me hopeful for the future. The spawn system changes make it a lot less frustrating, and there’s a lot of potential in the custom game settings.
General weirdness-main game
General weirdness-multicellular prototype
I do not think this overlapping is how it is supposed to work.
Editor image for comparison. (Also note some of the yellow cells shifted around again)
*
Previous organism when going to the macroscopic editor. It’s a bit… weird.
Patch map
Main game
Prototype/multicellular
Prototype/macroscopic editor
I have no idea what alterations are planned for this in the future, so don’t take any criticism here too harshly.
Auto-evo/prediction
For this, I am not sure how much it is being worked on, and my own understanding of how it is implemented is… limited. I also do not know what is already planned to be included in the algorithm, so sorry if I mention a lot of things that are already planned.
This, and also that the camera isn’t on the center of your creature, but is on the center of the original cell is really annoying, also the camera need to be able to zoom out a lot more when in early multicellular.
Opened an issue:
Did you confirm any of the cell changes (by pressing “NEXT”) and going back there? If so this might have more to do with the way multicellular editor doesn’t fully work with the undo system in all cases resulting in a few weird bugs.
Microbe AI is one area where we barely can get anyone motivated to do the bare minimum to not break it entirely with new features. It really needs someone to give it some love.
You can permanently disable tutorials in the options menu.
For the millionth time, my goal is to keep the immediate surroundings of the player the same after exiting the editor to keep some continuity.
Can confirm. Opened an issue:
I don’t see the image…
Opened an issue:
I did already know that that was a part where I had to give up before it was perfect due to time constraints.
Definitely should be unique. I’ll open an issue:
I agree, I’ll open an issue for this as well:
This was also discussed internally. Might as well open an issue:
Do you have a suggestion as to what to do? We get overwhelmingly more feedback that players think it is unfair that auto-evo thinks they should go extinct when they can still keep themselves from going extinct with their individual performance?
Currents have been a major feature that has been discussed for years, the only problem is that we have no graphics programmer available to make graphics for them so we can’t promise at all as to when they might be implemented.
A lot of players complained that they can’t specialize their cells in multicellular. I agree with you that I’d prefer to not have the discount but so many people seem to complain if we don’t have it…
Multicellular speed is the exact same logic as normal cell colony speed. Eventually we’ll have an organism statistics panel in multicellular as well.
I’m pretty sure it starts you off with the default compounds a new cell of your species receives.
Would you prefer if the game pretty randomly picked a cell to start your cell layout from? I think this feature can’t be worked on until this is done:
Mobility affects predation. The auto-evo prediction is not updated when the slider is moved, which is a known issue:
belgium, sorry about the images, they’re working now.
Ah, so it is, seems I overlooked it. Still you could consider letting that checkbox control the setting as well, I’ve seen that design in many games (disable on new game, re-enable in options). Not necessary either way though.
Hmm, well I am just one point of feedback, if the general impression is the opposite that is fine. That is also why I only suggested a small tweak.
This might be less of a problem if the auto-evo calculation eventually is improved to match the in-gameplay value of certain organelles better.
Another option: I think currently the increase from player reproduction is relative to your total population? If so you could decrease that relative component and add an absolute component that is relatively more significant if your population is quite low. That way it means that you can personally keep your species from going completely extinct without further ballooning the population of a species auto-evo thinks is designed well.
In this case I was actually talking about the diffusion effects already in the game. To elaborate: when you die or enter a new patch it is quite obvious to the human eye that the compound clouds you soon see have only just been spawned (very circular and concentrated). If it is possible to have some diffusion happen quickly before you see them it would look much more natural (and similar to how it looks when you have been in a patch for a long time (spread out patches with more irregular shapes).
I’m talking about the rotation of the organism here (the movement controlled by the mouse) To make it look natural from a player’s perspective (and avoid cheeky crane-arm strats), ideally this rotation would be around the center of mass of the organism, not around whatever the first cell of the organism is. Therefore, it would change as your organism grows new cells. I do realize that seems like quite a large change (and therefore work) compared to now.
You could probably make still make a crane arm then, but it would require you to make another crane-arm or counterweight on the other side.
A perfect example of how player feedback can misidentify a problem!
It is not. Was also a problem in the previous release so there’s an existing open issue:
I don’t think that would help that much. From what I’ve seen some people who complain about this just slap on as many organelles as they can. So unless we want to auto-evo to also end up with huge blobs that have multiple of all organelles, we can’t make the size penalty (energy use) that much smaller than it is currently.
The only potential I see is making the spawns over a wider area with smaller amounts at each point. The cloud simulation is one of the heaviest (but constant performance impact) things in the game, it won’t be possible to simulate multiple seconds of it quickly unless a massive lag spike (or some way to hide it) is acceptable.
Microbe colonies are formed around a single microbe. There must a central cell picked. So the only thing that could be done is automatically pick the center cell close to the center of the species. If the player had no way to control this, it might end up being a mouth cell or something that can’t survive on its own, which is why this can’t be done before the cell growth order can be configured by the player.
I would say that changes the question to “Why does this work well in gameplay for these players when auto-evo says it should not”, but I think the answer to that is it does not, really. Because that means it will take a player a lot longer to gather enough compounds to reproduce. Some people just like to make large cells.
I know I have repeated this many in times in many places, so I hope I am not boring anyone, but a “total species biomass” counter simply calculated by {total (predicted) population x size} might let those people have their “Happy green number go up” without compromising too much on the actual population number important for the simulation.
I think that would make at least some difference, not sure if it’s worth the work.
Right now the transition from editor to patch is actually astonishingly fast (at least on my machine, I have no idea how it goes for others), it barely even fades to black unlike the transition from patch to editor. Personally, I would not mind a short black screen before it fades in, could even show the patch name like is already the case now. I would just consider it a loading screen if I saw something like that. (Besides, there’s already a freeze for the autosave anyway)
It would make the experience/transition a bit less fast/“snappy” which could be a downside, but whether that is a bad thing is a matter of taste, I think.
Ah, I think I get it now: Center of rotation has to be the “main cell”, which has to be the first cell to bud off. Therefore setting the center of mass as the point of rotation would require whatever cell happens to be in the middle of the full-grown organism to be the first cell to bud off, is that correct?
Well, setting the growth order yourself would be a nice upgrade regardless, but please allow me another unreasonable question:
Is it possible to change the main cell during gameplay, setting it to whatever cell is closest to the middle whenever you gain or lose a cell? Or is that already what you meant, but you need the aforementioned issue on github resolved so that there is an explicitly set “first cell” since it probably won’t be the “main cell” anymore when you enter the editor?
I suppose showing the raw energy intake with a green arrow next to it might work as well, and that would tie itself more tightly to explaining how the auto-evo system works.
Yes, the rotation center (and camera focus) cell needs to be the bud cell.
The microbe colony code has had so many bugs (and still does) that I’m very suspicious that code for changing the colony leader to be another cell on the fly is not going to be very simple. In technical terms that would require internally to disband the colony entirely, adjust the microbe that is the player’s cell to point to a different object, and then rebuild the entire colony around it, which might be possible, or Godot will just hate it and increase the rate at which it crashes in the physics system, or randomly cause cells to detach again.
Respectfully disagree. The more varied cell types you have, the less of an impact changing organelles in one cell type has on the overall organism, so I think it’s fair (even necessary) to allow the player to make more of those changes. I think streamlining the process of cell design puts more focus on the macro organism since you have more room for error and don’t need to worry as much about the fine details.
I’m afraid keeping the same cost would needlessly slow down the game. Imagine having to spend three or four generations designing a new cell and then not even having enough points to place it.
I think it’s fine as is, but maybe there are alternatives? Perhaps epigenetics gives each cell type its own MP pool or a small amount of bonus MP, or perhaps developing sexual reproduction later down the line could give you bonus MP for the whole organism.
Right now the transition from editor to patch is actually astonishingly fast (at least on my machine, I have no idea how it goes for others), it barely even fades to black unlike the transition from patch to editor. Personally, I would not mind a short black screen before it fades in, could even show the patch name like is already the case now. I would just consider it a loading screen if I saw something like that. (Besides, there’s already a freeze for the autosave anyway)
Agree. I already suggested an animated transition screen to communicate the passage of time and help the player get into the right headspace after leaving the editor. Hiding loading screens is another use for things like that.
The bugged values remain after pressing Next and then going back into the cell editor. Fortunately, everything resets after playing another generation. Unfortunately, this problem is not exclusive to multicellular.
For the millionth time, my goal is to keep the immediate surroundings of the player the same after exiting the editor to keep some continuity.
Sorry, I don’t know how much this has been talked about in the past, but since this is a feedback thread, I second the opinion that this is a bit weird. I’m afraid I just don’t see why preserving continuity over 100 million years is important, though you’ve already heard me say that.
The microbe colony code has had so many bugs (and still does) that I’m very suspicious that code for changing the colony leader to be another cell on the fly is not going to be very simple.
Is this also the case for changing the order in which cells are created during gameplay (currently determined by the order in which they are placed)? It would be nice to allow the player to control that too if possible.