So, I didn’t really find a thread discussing this (of course I could have missed it) I had an idea about how such a game with infinate possibilities be achieved in creature design for later stages: perhaps there could be a drop down list of different body types that the player could alter like choosing a humanoid shape or a equine shape, or a snake/worm shape or even dinosaur shapes that you could further mold–think sims 4 style of altering by grabing and molding. And then you could add parts from there like wings or add arms/legs/eyes/fur/feathers, etc, make the creature taller, fatter, skinnier, make their neck long or short, adjust their facial features, etc. Im not sure how simple that wouls be–Im not a programer, honestly. But it was just a thought I had. Partially inspired by how the Sims lets you create and shape Sims, cats, and dogs and partially by how Spore allowed you to create creatures (with the adding kf limbs and all)
As I said in this thread:
We are going to avoid premade parts and I think this would also apply to templates. So you could shape your creature how ever you want (unlike spore where you had to drag and drop premade parts), but that of course means that it’s more difficult to make some existing species from Earth.
Id think that starting completely from scratch would also make it harder for players who are not artistically inclined. Or for players who dont want to spend alot of time making a creature. Wouldnt it? I dont know. Either way, i think this is going to be an awesome game just by hearing what you guys have in mind, its going to be huge and im surprised that more people dont know about it. If I had any programing skills id want to help with that–but alas I dont . I do have some artistic skills and im working on drawings to post on the concept art page. Well, just keep at it guys, i think what you’re doing is amazing.
Well I feel like this probably won’t be a rather big issue, since you build your creature slowly with only minor adjustments. It’s not like you try to create something in one go. You just take your previous “version” and add something small (like bigger legs, extra arms, nothing too dramatic). It is only when you start to take into account trying to work for something bigger which takes multiple generations that you might have to be artistic (even though that might be very hard even with an easier editor, because every generation inbetween the start and the end must be able to survive)
TBH, I think creature editing in future stages will be much more different to Spore than people imagine.
I don’t think there will be “parts” you can simply add or remove as such at all, I imagine it will be much more organic and iterative.
Although at this point it’s hard to say what it will look like, at least until the multicellular stage is fleshed out and playable.
The whole point of the limited mutations in thrive is that you must build on your preexisting species so there is no single point in the game where you are allowed to drag and drop premade parts. The whole thing is a smooth continuum starting with your cell and ending once you are tribal and can’t make even the small tweaks anymore. So you first start placing individual specialized cells and eventually you are adding tissue to different organs and slightly editing their size and placement. So premade parts are very incompatible with the concept of smooth evolution that thrive aims to have (there’s not going to be stage “transitions” as such like in spore instead it will be all smooth).
I like the idea of a “smooth” and realistic evolution. But, it still has to be user friendly. And it cant be too slow of progress each generation or else players will get impatient or even bored of waiting around until they can evolve again. As I mentioned on another page talking about creature creation, it sounds like the program y’all are trying to make is an organic form of Solidworks. Which solid works is user friendly (with some practice) so im not TOO concerned with how you guys will make it happen. I think it could work fine if you work in layers: skeletal, organ, and skin/appearance. That way you can go back down to the skeletal layer to alter the shape of the organism or add things like bones for a new limb, then move onto the organ layer to add muscle to the new limb and organs to the body, etc. Then move onto the outer skin layer to add patterns and skin type as well as other external features like wings, cartilage pieces like ears and noses, etc. I dont know, just a thought.
I could be alone in this sentiment, and I don’t want to tell the developers what they should do. However, I do think it wouldn’t hurt to have several different types of presets that could be heavily modified, at least for players that don’t want to use a more complex part creator. Don’t get me wrong though, I do think that having a complex part maker would be an important tool to incorporate into the game.
I agree that having templates or preset options would help people who arent that adept at using the “from scratch” approach. Some people dont want to spend hours making a creature. They want to get more into the game play rather than spending all that time trying to make a decent creature that can survive the planet. And yea at the end of the day, its 100% up to the game developers. But throwing out ideas here and there doesnt hurt.
The idea would be to group cells into tissues, and use those to build a creature (the specifics are not fully designed yet).
The thing with the stages post awakening is that the timescale is so reduced compared to the creature ones that no big changes would occur. Plus, life in society nullifies to some extent natural selection (that’s why people with poor vision for example can live and reproduce). The awakening stage might still allow for some evolution tho
No idea what you mean here, culture can change (and in fact does) within the same species, even within the same demographic groups.
What do you mean by this? Could you elaborate a bit more?
Eurocentric: focusing on European culture or history to the exclusion of a wider view of the world; implicitly regarding European culture as preeminent. I think they’re saying that not allowing for further genetic alterations in the aware stages would be “eurocentric” or not allowing variations among the culture of your creature. Which, I personally dont feel like it is eurocentric. Is it unrealistic to basically have a monoculture? Yea. eurocentric? Not really. But having one culture (or a few) to determine for your species vs the hundreds of cultures and subcultures we have in real life would be easier on the game developers and on running the game itself, i feel.
It comes down to balancing realism with what game developers can accomplish. Some aspects of realism may have to be scraped to make the game easier to understand and play (and to make it fun as well)
You don’t have to move forward in the game if you don’t want to (the goal is getting to space and then starting to unlock scifi stuff until you get to ascension). Like someone said that they just want to play the cell stage and not advance.
Please point out fully thought out features that fall under this category. (either in the GDD or on the dev forums thread where consensus was reached)
There aren’t finalized designs.
Are you saying we need to have alternate ways of developing a civilisation? If so, what would those be? If these are based on real-world civilisations, then sure, we’d love to know. If these are theoretical ways of developing civilisations that we haven’t actually observed, then forgive me for thinking that expecting us to devise such a system is asking too much.
A nomadic tribe would have it really hard to industrialize and go to space
That is not to say they would necesarilly be weaker than other societies, the mongols are a good example of this.
Also, to my knowledge, all civilizations had elite classes (japan for example had a feudal system, rome had patricians, ancient greece had citizens, etc…), not that it matters since in the first post of that thread nick suggested the option of an egalitarian society with no elite class
It’s not so much about decision making, but about the privileges gained in a group due to the power they hold in a society, due to them holding a lot of eitherpolitical, economical or military power.
Also all of the things you mentioned can be added as a technlogy in the tech tree
It’s not inevitable (there can be egalitarian societies where no elites exist, as the thread suggested)
Idk why there is so much debate on civilization aspects in Thrive when its not even in development yet. If you’re so worried that thrive will follow a “western” model then could tell me how western societies differed from other societies? Like, the basic formula for a civilization is basically the same. You have organization, creation of art/structures, gov’t, social classes, etc.
GreatEscapegoat, I see where you’re coming from and I definitely agree that this game should not be Eurocentric, but personally I haven’t gotten the impression that that’s where it’s headed.
If this turns out the way I hope it does, there’s no reason you couldn’t have your tribe or group or whatever be a nomadic culture, or anything else you want. There’s no reason a nomadic culture couldn’t erect buildings, for example.
I definitely agree that evolution shouldn’t stop at any point though. Obviously as time slows down, the changes become smaller and more time passes between them.
But what if after you reach awakening (? where you become sentient) your species is split in two halves that have no contact for thousands of years? There should be some differences.
Or what if you go to space and start colonising planets? There is a lot less genetic traffic between planets than between inhabitants of one planet, so populations should start to diverge in such a case too.
Theoretically you should be able to play a single game that spans millions of years. I really hope evolution wouldn’t just stop.
As I said, personally I don’t see any evidence of that in the official plans and ideas from the development team. I mostly see an effort to make it as open-ended and relative as possible.
I can see how you could get that impression from regular members though.
Either way, it’s way too early to tell anyway. I hope people on and off the team continue to be critical and to share their ideas so as to avoid the common pitfall of Eurocentricity we see in games like Civilization.