Organism Building Feature

I say the game could rig preset animations like spore does, only on a more realistic level.

Or better yet the game could make certain actions/animations based on how the player “categorize” limbs and such, so no need for neural or muscle editing to extreme levels.

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The problem here is that Spore was much, MUCH more restrictive than Thrive aspires to become. Every creature was either a limbless crawler or had a certain number of legs, which all functioned the same. And even then it wasn’t rare to see this system failing with limbs clipping through the ground and so on. If aquatic, terrestrial and flying creatures of all kinds shall be simulated, this will not suffice.

Categorizing limbs is indeed the first thing that comes to mind to simplify the problem a bit, and it is probably a step in the right direction, but still doesn’t solve all problems. For example if we have two different, designated limbs for different attacks, or even for the same attack (thinking bout the asymmetrical claws of crabs here), which utilizes both of them in a certain way intended by the player (in this case first grabbing/immobilizing and only then actually damaging), that the game probably won’t be able to figure out what to do, when we use the attack action. Which brings me to the point of how the system shall determine what movements a creature is capable of. Should everything with a certain number of legs an below a certain weight be allowed to climb trees? Are we sure we don’t miss anything, any ingenious and crazy anatomy with requirements like this? And if we are allowed to use a plethora of different limbs, how to procedurally generate the myriads of different, outlandish animations needed for our beautiful abominations, if we place basically no restrictions on the parts used in their anatomy (Which is not to say we should restrict that. Honestly, from what I have read up until now, the current concept of the Organism Editor will be my favorite feature, which is why we need to figure out how to implement it without abandoning all the depth it promises). This again leads to only more questions, like: How will a fighting system work? It would be such a shame to just use HP and simple all-or-nothing Hits like Spore did, if each organism will have such a complex interior with all the natural critical points (arteries, respiratory organs usw.) already laid out. But I can already see that a complex collision-physics-based system would complicate things tremendously (although Overgrowth did some good work in that regard, if I remember correctly…). What about balance? It should be quite easy to figure out center of mass etc. with such an detailed building plan of each organism, but will the game make use of these things, for example for flying creatures (with wingspan and -form correlating to the turn radius and lift etc.)?

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You obviously don’t play many MMORPGs. The player should be able to assign keys to certain actions other than walking. Walking would use the same controls that Spore used (QWEASD SPACEBAR and a few others) By having the player specify the way the creature moves in the editor itself. Other controls would use 1234567890 and the F1-F12 keys binded to a specific action. That is more than enough for any creature’s keybinds. If you still need more R F G Z X C V SHIFT and TAB are also all common keybinds. As far as how Damage is going to be calculated, most likely it would function like most RPGs, slap a healthbar, some varying resistances, some weak points/crit areas, and presto you got everything you would need. Most of all the things you have pointed out however would be solved in the Behavior editor.

Hm, the simplicity of the fighting system is a shame. How I would have loved to see strategical use or the long-term consequences of dismemberment, small predators clinging on the sides of bigger prey and the resulting need to actually protect certain body parts, be it with armor, thick fur or certain poses. I can’t exactly see this realised with an RPG-like system. But we do seem to delegate a lot of problems to the behaviour editor (not only for this particular issue but also for the complex interactions between different castes and the like), while I haven’t been able to find much concrete info on its intended structure. Is this because of me missing something, or has there been a lack of detailed information about it up until now?

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I hope that we can have concrete designs that solve these issues. But I think at least initially we will have some basic hitpoints system with maybe possibility of directly damaging targeted organs. As thrive is build iteratively we can add more complex features later. We are still a long way away from having to solve these kinds of issues.

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I think that for the bone structure, just making simple lines might be enough (e.g. if you were to make a humanoid you’d basically just draw a stickman), the editor would then turn these lines into bones which you’d be able to further modify (things like thickness, density…) and sculpt in some advanced settings, you’d connect them with joints and stuff. What might be a bit of a problem would be a skull and a spine. Skull would probably rely heavily on sculpting, whereas spine might be done as a single line, where you can set the number of connections, making it into many smaller pieces. Then, if you want, you can sculpt these vertebrae even further, either one by one or as a group. The benefits of this is that for someone who doesn’t want to put a lot of effort into the editing can just simply do a few lines and connect them, but still, someone willing to sacrifice some time to make their creature look as they will can do so. Still not sure how to make muscles, tho. But for the skin, there might be a mapping with a painting tool to select areas that are meant to have smooth skin, areas with armour-like skin, areas with fur or feathers etc., but I’ve coveder that here already ( Skin Types and Coloration ). This would allow the flexibility of letting our imagination wild, while still keeping it simple for the ones who wish so. Sadly, I still haven’t worked out how the muscle and skull editing would work. What do you think, guys? Any feedback? And any ideas for the things I have no idea how to do?

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I think it should be a bit more like Spore, meaning it would keep bone and muscle editing to a minimum, and everything else is there for you to edit.

Organs on the other hand can be more beneficial to the organism, so leave stuff like that up to the player.

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Making an arthropod seems a bit harder than a vertebrate from what I see.
(/‘’-‘’)/ reach for the stars

I’m sure that Qaudropods are organisms that will likely be added, but what about Heptapods and Pentapods?

Well, as far as the current model looks like, it should be completely possible to create a five- or seven-armed starfish-like creature, if that is what you are after. If you want to make a vertebrate with an odd number of legs instead, I think that too should be absolutely possible … just not very useful.

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I want to make a half arthropod half vertebrate creature like the Zerg. Would that be possible with this system?

It would be more like a vertebrate with sections of armoured flesh and still having bones underneath, but yes you could make Zerg creatures.

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About exoskeleton-endoskeleton combo: Couldn’t you also have something where an exoskeleton segment has ‘branches’ leading in that lead to an endoskeletal joint?
About odd limb numbers: What if you spend a long time on land, and evolve into a heavily asymetric creature, which may have an odd limb number?

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I have to say, I don’t see why not, and it seems pretty belgium badass. The only issue is that you’d have to change the skeleton up a bit. Our skeletons are filled with bone marrow and blood and stuff, while insects don’t have that at all. Their skeletons are a bit more disposable.

You might be able to create something for balance purposes. Just extend your spine or something, and create a long, slim limb you could then use to help your creature in balance. Perhaps you could even make it be able to pick stuff up.

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What would the purpose of having an exo - endoskeleton combo be?

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I’m guessing you get the perks of hard to crush and to penetrate, but having two sets of bones would make your creature pretty heavy.

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If it was a complete endoskeleton and complete exoskeleton, then if the endoskeleton is much stronger, then it could serve as a backup if the exoskeleton failed.

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so I heard in other threads that the editor involves more sculpting than pre-made parts, I am wondering how complex the sculpting mechanic will be?, (we can also discuss more here if y’all want to)

I want an organelle editor.
Also we don’t know for sure as this is in the seemingly distant future.
GIVE ME ORGANELLE EDITOR OR… not…

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Oh no… I was thinking of such advanced thing for my Thrive: Source project (aka The Alan Parson’s Project, lol) ! But yeah, I was thinking about an organelle editor for my own version of Thrive, but it would be for more advanced user (people with high knowledge in biology).