# Reworking when auto-evo is applied in the gameplay loop **URL:** https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/reworking-when-auto-evo-is-applied-in-the-gameplay-loop/7862 **Category:** Meta **Created:** [October 31, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/reworking-when-auto-evo-is-applied-in-the-gameplay-loop/7862 "2024-10-31T12:11:56Z") **Posts on this page:** 1 **Showing post:** 1
### Author: ![Rathalos](https://thrivecommunity-cdn.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/rathalos/32/8539_2.png) [@Rathalos](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Rathalos) #### Post date: [October 31, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/reworking-when-auto-evo-is-applied-in-the-gameplay-loop/7862/1 "2024-10-31T12:11:56Z")
> [@0.7.1 General Feedback Thread](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-7-1-general-feedback-thread/7831/18): > > When auto-evo is run before entering the editor, it will store various information for referencing later. This includes obviously the population numbers which are needed to update the game state, but also all miche information is saved. So barring any bugs the food chains and population numbers are exactly what was just calculated and applied to the game world when entering the microbe editor. But this auto-evo run before entering the editor includes creating new species and mutating existing ones, correct? Because I think that’s a problem. Let me see if I can clarify what I mean. Here’s a screenshot when first entering the editor: > **100 myr** > > ![afbeelding](https://thrivecommunity-uploads.b-cdn.net/original/2X/1/1dcce2b26cf5ac2c76f34389dcc567b8da90a3e1.jpeg) If I am understanding you correctly, what has happened so far in order is: 1. auto-evo created new species/mutated existing ones 2. new population numbers calculated for all existing species. However, I’ve not modified my own species yet. As clear in the screenshot, these are Generation 1 AI cells, being compared to the Generation 0 Player cell. This continues throughout the entire game: It’s always comparing Gen N AI cells with Gen N-1 player cells. Assuming both the player and AI try to make competitive changes each generation, this is a significant disadvantage. That’s already the case in the old auto-evo system, but I think the miche system further exacerbates this. Let me try to demonstrate again. In the same editor session as the previous screenshot, I designed my Gen 1 Cell (screenshot is actually from editor session 2): > **Gen1 Player cell** > > ![afbeelding](https://thrivecommunity-uploads.b-cdn.net/original/2X/4/4ba5778e8b73a43eead51d7c14ab386aee712f80.jpeg) Optimised to be large enough to engulf the other Gen 1 cells, while still outspeeding them. It was very effective! No doubt the Miche algorithm would place it as a predator above those other two species. Let’s take a look at the report of editor session 2: > **Session 2 Auto-evo** > > ![afbeelding](https://thrivecommunity-uploads.b-cdn.net/original/2X/1/15ba7c01b49d7b5af79a4501a6d6fe4ca71ad217.jpeg) Again, these are all Gen 2 species, in the exact population numbers they will have when I leave the editor (correct?). My species did okay, at least it did not crash in population or die out! Unlike our Kronsis friends, whose miche was presumably taken by Kicanus. Let’s take a look at the food web now: > **Food chain 2** > > ![afbeelding](https://thrivecommunity-uploads.b-cdn.net/original/2X/d/df776cd22bb902f1eff7457382be82cb963f7878.jpeg) Am I placed in a predator miche? No, I’ve been displaced by a Gen 2 cell that is essentially my Gen 1 cell + a metabolosome. It makes sense that I would be outcompeted in the calculation. After all, it’s a Gen 1 cell trying to compete against a Gen 2 cell. I am lucky to have the “player can exist without a miche” allowance, otherwise I would already be extinct in this patch. My point being: the “player can exist without a miche” allowance is not just: > [@0.7.1 General Feedback Thread](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/0-7-1-general-feedback-thread/7831/12): > > one of the ways the game is made easier for the player. It is an absolutely necessary band-aid for the fact that the player is permanently one generation behind in all population calculations. Please let me know if I got anything wrong in the order of processes. If it’s okay with you, I’ll post this as its own thread as well, since I think it’s worth discussing. =========================================================================================== And now for something completely different: Flagella. I know I already mentioned this in the release candidate thread, but let me back it up with some numbers now: > **Without Flagella: Speed 23.7** > > ![afbeelding](https://thrivecommunity-uploads.b-cdn.net/original/2X/0/0f2add71ab1a1595451cf1e176741cc798f20f32.jpeg) > **Standard Flagella: Speed 34.7 ATP -6** > > ![afbeelding](https://thrivecommunity-uploads.b-cdn.net/original/2X/f/fa58bf2de7700263177a7aff8d75478e6d95a1aa.jpeg) > **Shortest Flagella: Speed 34.5 ATP -2** > > ![afbeelding](https://thrivecommunity-uploads.b-cdn.net/original/2X/3/3d00803beb4e725b57041441f17b56d458e5a5ae.jpeg) > **Longest Flagella: Speed 35. 3 ATP -18** > > ![afbeelding](https://thrivecommunity-uploads.b-cdn.net/original/2X/2/2f8c78c43c7a93c2b61de5af16779a0197caef49.jpeg) Either the speed indicator is wrong, or this is not balanced. There is no reason to use anything other than the shortest possible Flagella. (even accounting for the additional 2 ATP in base osmoregulation and movement cost) --- _[View the full topic](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/reworking-when-auto-evo-is-applied-in-the-gameplay-loop/7862)._