# Technology without Sapience
**URL:** https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771
**Category:** Aware Stage
**Created:** [July 12, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771 "2021-07-12T20:51:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@BurgeonBlas](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/BurgeonBlas)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/1 "2021-07-12T20:51:41Z")
How would the game progress if the player evolved a creature that can invent but is not sapient or capable of language?
The most realistic solution seems to be for the game to continue in the aware stage, but with a tech editor availible. Unfortunately, it seems that this would be a lot of work for a rather rare case
Another solution could be excluding this possibility, which I feel would be unsatisfying
The best solution I can think of would be to progress to a simplified version of the awakening stage, with certain features unavailible due to the lack of language or intelligence
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### Author:  [@Deathwake](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Deathwake)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/2 "2021-07-13T00:08:07Z")
What I’m interested in is a nice mind that’s components are nonsapiant but as a whole is smarter than any human.
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### Author:  [@hhyyrylainen](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/hhyyrylainen)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2021, 8:58am UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/3 "2021-07-13T08:58:19Z")
Technology without sapience is really just instincts, or learning to mimick your parents. To actually invent something properly you _must_ be sapient.
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### Author:  [@Deathwake](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Deathwake)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/4 "2021-07-13T16:55:07Z")
I can agree with that so long as the tech editor is part of the instinct editor and hive minds can develop sapience without their contingent parts having the trait.
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### Author:  [@blackjacksike](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/blackjacksike)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/5 "2021-07-13T19:54:59Z")
At most, animals that aren’t sapient may use rocks as tools.
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### Author:  [@Sentiant](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Sentiant)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/6 "2021-07-13T20:21:21Z")
Ok but that doesn’t rule out technology without sapience. What about something like a spider’s web, would you make that in the technology editor? What if spiders evolved to make little nets out of their webs to catch prey? That’s pure instinct, but would probably count as technology for game purposes.
Once the tech editor is implemented ~75% of the work for something like this would basically be done right? It’d be cool if someone around then would go back and implement it into the aware stage.
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### Author:  [@blackjacksike](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/blackjacksike)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/7 "2021-07-13T21:30:56Z")
It’s not technology because technology is meant to extend its user’s capabilities. The spider is already able to create its web naturally. We humans used sticks because our arms were not long enough to grab something or simply not dangerous enough to attack our prey.
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### Author:  [@Sentiant](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Sentiant)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/8 "2021-07-13T21:57:28Z")
> [@blackjacksike](#):
>
> We humans used sticks because our arms were not long enough to grab something or simply not dangerous enough to attack our prey.
tHaT’S nOT techNoloGY bEcaUSE HuMAnS aRE natURALLY CAPablE oF pIcKInG UP StICKS.
It is an object that is not part of the organism, but extends its capabilities. My point is that this case is already covered by the tech object editor, which we already need, so it’s a dumb idea to create a separate editor for edge cases like this. Whether it technically counts as technology is irrelevant.
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### Author:  [@Deathwake](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Deathwake)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/9 "2021-07-13T23:44:15Z")
For that matter what about beavers or apes, the make things out of their sticks like humans do.
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### Author:  [@fralegend015](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/fralegend015)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2021, 11:19am UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/10 "2021-07-14T11:19:10Z")
> [@blackjacksike](#):
>
> It’s not technology because technology is meant to extend its user’s capabilities.
then space rockets aren’t technology because humans aren’t naturally capable of going to space, so it doesn’t extend its user’s capabilities.
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### Author:  [@hhyyrylainen](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/hhyyrylainen)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/11 "2021-07-14T13:10:37Z")
Didn’t they say the exact opposite? Rockets _are_ technology because humans naturally _can’t_ go to space.
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### Author:  [@fralegend015](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/fralegend015)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/12 "2021-07-14T14:24:03Z")
no, because it _gives_ humans the ability to go to space, it doesn’t extend the ability to go to space.
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### Author:  [@hhyyrylainen](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/hhyyrylainen)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/13 "2021-07-14T14:25:18Z")
To me “extending its user’s capabilities” includes enabling entirely new things, then again I’m not a native English speaker.
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### Author:  [@Deathwake](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Deathwake)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/14 "2021-07-14T16:50:24Z")
Like I said why don’t beavers count then, and a spiders silk has no more to do with webs then ore does with skyscrapers. Even if we say that a technology has to be learned, not instinctual, why not co-opt the tech editor for them? I mean, it’s just prudent, what else would you do?
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### Author:  [@blackjacksike](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/blackjacksike)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/15 "2023-02-19T15:50:11Z")
Spiders make their web naturally and beavers could simply find a small cave and live within but instead decide to craft a barrier in a river to live inside because they are better at swimming and want to protect themselves from predators that can’t swim.
Now I’m starting to think whether there is a distinction between tools and technology? Perhaps that could help us out in this discussion?
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### Author:  [@hhyyrylainen](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/hhyyrylainen)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/16 "2023-02-19T19:16:06Z")
> [@hhyyrylainen](#):
>
> To me “extending its user’s capabilities” includes enabling entirely new things
I just literally defined above that one criteria for technology is to extend the capabilities of its user. Spider webs are not technology as it is a natural thing spiders can do. Humans spending the collective effort of thousands of humans to build rockets to go to space, now that is a capability that humans don’t naturally have.
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### Author:  [@Moth500](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/u/Moth500)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://community.revolutionarygamesstudio.com/t/technology-without-sapience/3771/17 "2024-07-28T18:54:32Z")
Maybe just renaming the tech editor to instinct editor for aware stage? It could be used to make webs, nests, etc. It would probably have to be simplified.