So a species with a small population and under a huge pressure would evolve at a fast rate (due to the pressure) or a slow rate (due to low population)?
Thatās what Iāve been saying in most cases itās slower and will lead to extenction, unless of course the pressure is du to gradually increase in heat or radiation
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Most usually it would be caused by other species or environmental events/disasters. Which would put the species in a very dangerous situation since it might not be able to evolve āfast enoughā to get the necesarry adaptations to survive.
Thatās pose another issues with the current auto-evo
(It might be a feature who knows?),the idea of constant time frame 100 million year , while itās a perfect time scale For the miche algorithm, it over simplify the process .I mean for microbes who could multiply for millions in just few days a mutation is certainly to occure in like 10 years? Maybe less maybe more depending on many factors but a 20 years is a limite , while this mutation is not enough to call it a new species itās still counts as a subrace within the specie
There are certain limitations as to how detailed can Thrive reasonably get. We donāt want the game to have an ungodly amount of steps before unlocking something like anaerobic respiration. And a playthough should also last roughly as much as youād expect it to last based on Earthās life history.
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I understand but I just want the report phase to have a better info like this: during this 100 million years it happens:
During the first 1 million year:
the speciy X have mutated into Y
.
.
During the 2 million year:
The speciy W haveā¦
I donāt think this would be considered important enough for the developers to spend the effort of adding this in.
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Itās ok 
, I donāt think this a fundemtal issue , but when I finally get the skills this will be my second thing to do
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One thing for sure is that it will take quite a while to get this right without any major bugs.
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Isnāt this about just about decreasing the time step of auto-evo? The huge problem with this is that having time step of 1 Myr would mean loading screens are 100 times longer, which is a no go due to laptop players. So thatās why we basically have to use 100 Myr as the time step so that processing times are reasonable and with the player also being locked to the same speed this results in a reasonable amount of gameplay cycles as well.
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I think they mean something along the lines of āassigningā autoevo mutations and stuff for various Myrs of the 100-Myr time steps (so the autoevo and the player still have the 100-myr timestep, but the game would have some sort of a randomizer which would assign various autoevo changes to various individuals Myrs within the timestep)
So you mean like if a species is calculated to have 3 changes, those would instead create 3 intermediate forms in the evolutionary tree? Thatās what I can imagine happening, but it would have problems like how to handle species with just a single mutation and if the average player would ever even notice this.
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Yeah, I donāt think this suggestion is worth adding for the value it gives the game. Most people (afaik) are fine with how the report is like as of the present.
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The concept was just a speculation of mine, as I just thought that 100million years is just too big for microbes evolution because some even evolve in human lifetime,when I have a more solid concrete concept I will make a topic about it
The reason why the step is 100 myrs is as Hhyyrylainen said: It makes microbe stage have an optimal length.
But may I ask, what other concepts have you had on your mind?
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The idea is that 100 million years is just too much for microbes,but unless I understand the problem processing speed, I will always think that we could do a more realistic stimulation,but again how many biome could we support using this newly evolution-stimulation technique, this will only be known if an implementation is ready, but for sure 100 million years for microbes is just too much , if you want a better number then letās say the mutation rate is 0.0001% and the microbes double in number every 30 days then the number of mutations in 1 year will be
Mutation ratex(2^(356/30))=0.000001x3734=0,037
Which means in 100 years it will statistically evolve 3 times at least. And this assuming all this but maybe a real life is a bit more limiting (exponential growth could not be supported for long time) but still 100 million year is just too much for microbes
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I think you are slightly conflating what in real life is a mutation a strain of bacteria picks up and propagates. In thrive we are simulating much bigger changes, like gaining a nucleus. If I remember right, then on earth it took 1 billion years for first eukaryotes to appear, which equates to 10 editor cycles in Thrive. And thatās about the speed the player can acquire the nucleus, so thatās pretty much tuned correctly.
The other part of mutations that you arenāt taking into account is that the player needs to be able to respond to the changes other species are making. So in addition to the processing speed this adds a limit to how short evolution cycles can be (because otherwise the player needs to go through hundreds of small tweaks of their species). The game will get extremely boring after dozens of hours stuck in the microbe stage trying to get through the billions of years it takes for complex life to appear.
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Yeah. Thrive is supposed to be accurate to the known scientific theory, but also a playable game at the same time.
Yeah. Here is a post about the game length that someone liked so I was reminded I wrote this recently:
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The information about the average mutation rate of 0.003 mutations per genome per generation in bacteria comes from a combination of studies and reviews, but a key source is:
- Lynch, M. (2010). Evolution of the mutation rate. Trends in Genetics, 26(8), 345-352.
This paper by Michael Lynch provides a comprehensive overview of mutation rates across different organisms and highlights the surprisingly consistent rate observed in bacteria when measured per genome per generation. He discusses the evolutionary implications of this finding and explores the factors that might contribute to this relatively stable rate.
While this is a key source, the concept is also supported by findings from other studies that have used different methods to measure mutation rates in various bacteria. These studies often use techniques like: - Mutation accumulation experiments: Where bacteria are grown for many generations with minimal selection pressure, and their genomes are sequenced to identify accumulated mutations.
- Whole-genome sequencing of natural isolates: Comparing genomes of different isolates of the same species to estimate mutation rates over evolutionary time.
By combining data from these different approaches, scientists have converged on the estimate of approximately 0.003 mutations per genome per generation as a general average for bacteria.
Itās worth noting that the Wikipedia page on āMutation rateā also mentions this value and often cites relevant research papers.
This talks about how 30 days is an overestimated for most my microbes:
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1MAJvGU-cAa504EBm8hq_LPc31N4G5fyv3-q9sVNoNPA/mobilebasic?hl=fr-FR&pli=1
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