Underwater Civilizations Take 3

Please forgive my double posting, slow mode prevents me from editing.

List with reasons attached, adapted from Twilight’s original list.

Heh big list
  • Low melting point metals for Hydrothermal Vents
    • actually possible but doesnt allow anything stronger than gold.
  • Forges built around vents and somehow forcing water out to increase temperature
    • Temperature caps out low.
  • Scaly foot Gastropoda analog domestication for ‘metallic’ scales
    • Can’t be bred into larger shapes, and leaves you with at best two to three small, low quality pieces of metal you can make.
  • Electric Eel domestication as generators
    • Voltage, amps, whatever metric uses for this, all off the measurements are utterly inconsequential when compared to the quantities needed to run an arc forge or welder.
  • Bioengineering in general
    • Doesn’t adequately replace many technologies including but not limited to: firearms, steamships, computers, rockets, aircraft, engines, industrial factories, and construction with metal.
  • Mechanical Computers/intermediate instruments until metalworking
    • does not allow for any real computing power or economies of scale and doesn’t explain how one would get metal.
  • simple compasses /similar generators
    • does not explain how one would acquire metal.
  • Current utilization w/ waterwheel to generate electricity
    • same issue as with electric eels
  • Chemicals that burn in contact with water, typically isolated in caves
    • most do not burn at sufficient temperature and those that do require metals
  • Anything that can burn in water/Greek fire
    • as above
  • Thermite, phosphorous, etc
    • as above
  • Amphibious people
    • not a true underwater civ
  • Amphibious Slaves
    • either its trading with a land civ but not nicely or magically training monkeys to smelt.
  • Crustacean society
    • either solves nothing or is amphibious.
  • Crustaceans utilizing mostly seamless (only seams adapted to release extra heat/allow limb movement) going by mid ocean ridges to avoid predators and eventually smelting
    • no sufficient temperatures exist to smelt with
  • Octopi in shallows to Squid in depths symbiosis, idea specifically also had them on a Europa like planet and thinking about space by firing extremophile microbes through geysers, making rockets via ceramic plating and limpet teeth analogs.
    • old theory contingent on having not only both terrestrial and ice mooner geography but also smelting aluminium ore underwater somehow. not realistic.
  • Water wires carry electricity when separated from other water
    • useless.
  • Pressure forges force out water
    • requires oxygen, fuel, and ignition from unknown sources. pressure may not be sufficient i dont know for certain.
  • Biomaterials: woody something, bones, etc.
    • Useless for going to space, computers, and random chance if a planet has anything even somewhat useful.
  • Material unique to a planet
    • explain, also same issues as above.
  • Fire breathing Sea dragon with a forge in lungs
    • utter fantasy, no reason one of these would evolve, and having a forge in one’s lungs tends to result in death,
  • Amphibious beast of burden Carries sophont a to surface in water filled stomach/pouch
    • possible, but how does one forge from inside a frogs mouth? also societies don’t domesticate massive animals so the creature would have to be unbred, wild, tamed (read: less trained) and societies don’t tend to tame large animals without preexisting wealth,
  • Bubble Forge
    • insufficient oxygen, how are bubbles made anyways, what fuel, why would a stone age civ waste time on this?
  • Floating surface forges/fire
    • no idea, seems a bit crazy for a stone age civ to figure out and fuel is an issue but never seen anything damming.
  • Sulfate dissolving to ‘forge’
    • i dont know this one.
  • Fire in water Vapor?
    • impossible
  • Black Smokers can and do melt metal and have organisms adapted to them
    • not really, like, lead maybe? dissolved aluminum maybe? nothing useful.
  • Thallium Reactors
    • how in hell? also what for? poisoning everyone?
  • O2 from swim bladders/lungs
    • fuel where? sufficient oxygen = nope
  • Underwater launching rockets
    • made from what metal?
  • Alternate Tech Trees
    • unexplained rambling. specify what you want and then we’ll shoot that down.
  • Plants/Cellulose can be harder and lighter than steel, can be done irl, problem is isolating pure, mesoscopic cellulose
    • how to isolate cellulose? also doesnt make computers, steam engines, or rockets very well.
  • Cold Forging/Shaping
    • shaping what metal? native gold or copper is possible but useless.
  • Organism that soaks up water (to allow for space to forge)
    • life isn’t minecraft, when you remove water more rushes in.
  • Fluorine vs. Oxygen Burning
    • doesnt work underwater to my knowledge but this is one im least sure of.
  • CO2 bubble filter on bubble forge
    • useless.
  • Uplifting
    • litterally waiting for divine intervention isnt a viable solution.
  • Symbiosis w/ surface species
    • 100% possible but unlikely.
  • Cave amphibians/Cave lakes forging
    • Basically amphibians with extra steps/you’d run out of oxygen.
  • Forging using Cave air pockets
    • above + how do you forge? telekinisis?
  • Stone Age w/ advancement but no tech (ex. Native Americans/Incans, etc.)
    • totally possible but useless you can’t get past society stage.
  • Bacteria bonding accidentally to dropped stone tools near vent, same bacteria creates Iron covered tools, similar to Scaly Foot Gastropoda irl
    • super cool idea, wildly unlikely, would make incredibly low quality iron, and wouldnt be scalable.
  • land suits
    • production unexplained, economies of scale needed, and land suits would most likely be mechanically impossible without metal.
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