Underwater Civilizations Take 3

Highly unlikely,the first space program flights will be low latitude where orbital decay takes days.

EDIT:Oh youre refering to OURSELVES haha i dont really think that tbh.

Reading up on it further it looks like Kessler syndrome isn’t that terrible a barrier to space travel, mostly wrecking satellite zones instead, so hard locking your civ out via space debris might be relatively challenging yeah.

You can propose all the theoretically and physically plausible underwater analogues to terrestrial technology as you want, but it’s all meaningless unless you take the time to actually make your ideas coherent by stitching them together and justifying them.
They are analogues not homologues.
Yes; these Aqua-sapients could hypothetically speaking use X to do Y.
But why would they though? In what circumstances would these events happen?

To our distant ancestors fire was a precious commodity. A big light would come crashing through the heavens every now and again and set a tree or the ground a blaze. The fire would not only scare predators away, but also provide light, and warmth, and in some rare instances maybe some food.
Originally we were (presumably) also scared of the fire. But It takes only 1 adventurously stupid Ape to start poking at the bright red monster with a stick and 1-2 million years later you’ll have a society full of pyromaniacs making fire breathing metal rods to fly out into space.

Now obviously I’m paraphrasing for the sake of convenience. Our ancestors relationship with fire was far more complex than that. But the overarching question trying to be established is:
[Could you provide a similarly complex timeline (in respect to humans and our relationship with Fire, Metal. and all of our other major technological advancements) for the advancement of technology with what examples you have provided, and are you able to justify some of its cruder details]

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I think this all boils down to creativity and any possible tech/tech discovery would be able to have a story around them.Your example said something about being adventurous,which i think could be applied to anything.
Also :

Then let’s just make them discover quantum physics while on stone age.

I dont know if you consider 500bce close to stone age, but leucippus says hi. I dont know if any tools from that time helped them with coming to this conclusion. But it shows what human level intelligemce can achieve. Remember i said 160Iq average. Which is higher than average human level of intelligence.

Anyhow i never said they should discover that lol.Its not a requierment for domestication or lava vent smelting.

Didn’t find that these had already been posted so here goes.

I recommend giving these two a listen.

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I love SFIA, happy someone else is pointing out his stuff.

(and i kinda gave up on making spaceships without metal and decided you should just live on an Enceladus/Europa type moon and shoot extremophiles out of the geysers until you learn pottery, at which point you can make pottery space ships, and the extremophiles will start up there own ecoology up there for you to study.)

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Alright, I messaged a developer, and he said he would get other devs to read an essay, if it was logically accurate they would put underwater civ space travel (If logically backed up) in game when civ stage is indev. instead of thermite, we need a way to make thermate, a mixture of sulfer, barium nitrate, thermite, and somthing that binds it I think, that way it will burn when in contact of magma, or insides of vents.
Heres the essay I have so far, this is sorta a colab essay,

This is my part of the collaborated essay, of me, and @Deathwake.

So, two creatures evolve sentience on a planet resembling Enceladus/Europa. One of which is a cephalopod resembling an octopus, the other, a squid resembling cephalopod. The octopi live in the tropical shallows to deepish waters (0-3000 feet), while the squids live at around the maximum depth of the octopi (2900-6000). So, they eventually meet, and share forms of languages with each other.

Then, the squids figure out that when using a very long piece of bone (Most likely from megafauna) with raw ores of tin and lead, they melt when put close to hydrothermal vents (Of the black smoker variety) and then cool off to create hard metallic variants of stone , which can be malleable. They discover this because/by “Insert why factor made by @Deathwake here”

They of course, share this information with the octopi, which then give all of the tin and lead they own, to be shaped by the squids using basic tools, and hollow box shaped rocks filled with sand and indented with the shape that they would like.

The Octopi find that limpet resembling creatures have Extremely hard, and pressure resistant teeth by “Insert why factor here” (Earth limpets teeth can resist the pressure that diamonds form in), stronger than metal at that (this is biologically accurate with earth dwelling limpets). The octopi share this information with the squids, who give them a gift of megafauna meat.

Aluminum can actually be found in vent fluid samples, at precisely 3 percent of the total sample. Here’s the source:
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com › …
Aluminum can also be made using a special process on alumina, which is made from smelting bauxite.
The aluminum could be extracted by “Insert way to extract here” and it was discovered because of “Insert why factor made by @Deathwake here”

The only thing stopping one of these ancient batteries from being made in the stone age is the metal. This was circular, and we needed the metal to get the metals, but both iron (in the form of meteoric iron) and copper (nothing specific it’s just rare) can be found in the pure form. this doesn’t need to be smelted, just scraping of the oxide and cracking it into shape would do. if this can be done they could be scaled up to make aluminum. The Squid discovered this “Insert why factor made by @Deathwake here”

We’ll be smelting in classically how @Deathwake detailed in some post or other. As a chemical battery the charge comes from the acid, which is acquired in really any form, from vinegar (fermentation) to sulfuric acid (acid rain). The octopi discovered this by “Insert why factor made by @Deathwake here”
Edit: It doesn’t really come from there, but it is needed.

As for the escaping the planet ordeal, a pottery rocket would work. The species could discover pottery by shooting extremophiles out of the geysers which surprised them at first, just like lightning created fire for hoomans. (Europa like planet, remember that.) until pottery is learned. The extremophiles will most likely start ecology up there for study.

hey, can we skip the bauxite by just getting aluminum from vents?

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K, now what do we do, just organise the data, and add the potery stuff?

sure! we need to skip the quotes and just fully incorporate it.

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Is that* presentable?
Edit 2: We just need a “Why factor” As people put it I guess.
Edit 3: ADMINS THE ESSAY IS ALMOST COMPLETE, DONT READ IT YET THOUGH.
Edit 4: Oh no…2 devs are online…

Fixed the links to be embeds in your post.

Oh thought something broke since i suddenly could see the actual embed XD.
Thought people would find it annoying with the giant images. But if it’s fine it’s fine :slight_smile:

I think it’s one million percent better to see the actual video title and thumbnail than just the link. I don’t remember the URLs of videos I have already watched.

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Oh thanks @hhyyrylainen, you’re super helpful.

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Lol those episodes is where i got the idea of nature selecting intelligence and what this commentary is based on.

Also found this if the fully biological path to space is to be implemented.

Also id like to add that with sufficient tech advancement nanotechnology and biotehcnology are basically the same ,so metal working WILL inevitably come after enough biotech advancement.

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i love that episode but you have to get into space first.

Launching from bioblimps lol.
Or some kind of active supported trees,the analogous of space fountains.