Any proof for this? Where did you run it? What kind of “adaptations” are you talking about? How did you phrase it in the poll?
Also, argumentum ad populum fallacy
Where is this poll? I can’t find it in this thread
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I am entirely serious. I hold the opinion that metal is not necessary for a civilization to get through the early stages of development, and that forcing players to use metal would inject an unnecessary point of fake difficulty. You may disagree with this argument, but it isn’t some crazy position that no reasonable person could ever believe
It was about species in general, because it’s quite clear that all species, regardless of environment, will need some sort of rare power to find metal
Yes, it does: If 90% of people hold a belief that, if followed, will make the game impossible to complete, then it’s pretty fair to call it ‘effectively unbeatable’
Where is the hypocrisy? Agreeing that some fire or elements are necessary eventually is not the same as forcing it to be present from the very beginning
Unfortunately, the poll was deleted and I forgot to take a screenshot
I was trying to prove what people think about the issue. An argumentum ad populum fallacy doesn’t make any sense here: Asking the public is the best way to know what the public thinks
im pretty sure we could do without this.
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whats our rare power that allowed us to get metal then??
pretty sure everyone agrees with you, however, forcing metal use is only for the advanced stages? no one said to force it on awakening stage or society stage civs…
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I’m not saying that that is not possible. See my earlier post about coming up with alternative technologies for everything. It’s just much harder which is why it isn’t the focus of the discussion.
When you reply to people it seems like you don’t even try to understand their argument and argue back in good faith. Good example is your reply to me just now (which I quoted). If you don’t learn to argue so that you don’t deplete the sanity of whoever is talking to you, I need to take some action.
Another very good point. @BurgeonBlas you don’t even seem to realize what the opposition to your arguments is…
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Our fiery digestion
My position, as is explained in earlier posts, is that fire and metal are not necessary for a species to reach the industrial stage, though they will need them after this point. You may or may not agree with this, but others quite clearly disagree
I do try and understand their full argument and to argue back in good faith. And I’m far from unique here in misunderstanding the other side’s argument
no ones saying we magically need to eat cooked food, just that it greatly eases the process.
which makes no sense and is actively arguing against the definition of industrial everyone is working with. if you want to prove that point argue for it calmly, scientifically, and dont sound like youre trolling.
try might not be good enough, we’re exhausted of the total lack of sources, nonsensical claims, misunderstandings, and reactionary counter-productiveness, to name a few.
im so sorry we’ve misunderstood your constantly changing, physics violating, mostly unexplained, illogical total mess of a core concept, and i for one strive to do better and understand you.
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Just look at humans: we clearly aren’t adapted for a diet without cookery
Why? What do we need with metal to approach the industrial stage?
Can you present examples of me doing all of this?
My position has only changed arguably twice throughout the entirety of my contribution to this thread. And both times it was demarcated by a rather broad outline of the position. There have been absolutely no physics violations in any of my points, and I have explained, (occasionally multiple times) almost every concept I present
except that you’re kinda wrong, we dont need to cook fruits and vegetables, so only meat is left, and even then we can still digest raw meat, albeit inefficiently
metal means stronger tools and building materials, and I don’t think that engines and machinery made of stone and wood (if those are even possible to make, AND be underwater) would be that good, so you probably need lots of metal if you wanna industrialize
you can just read your own posts…
but this post here is kind of an example?
this one caused a misunderstanding, had an absurd claim at the bottom, and theres no source to back up your poll thing ; )
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My brother in Spode, fire was discovered 300,000 years ago and the first Homo emerged 3 million years ago. The earliest Homo Sapien emerged 350,000 years ago. What were they doing those 50,000 years without fire?
Alloys
You survey which had more responses then unique people online in all my years here which was deleted without a screenshot, you adamantly refusing to accept the fact that metals are needed for advanced civilisation. As TeaKing said,
{blankspace}
And how will we get this non-LAWK hypothetical nonsense in the first place? I doubt there is a plan for a Manaplaster
Yes, it’s very inefficient, and even a little dangerous at times. Almost as if we aren’t supposed to do it
Wood and stone were usually good enough for pre-industrial machinery IRL, as is shown by all of the things humans have made without the need for metal
- This isn’t a misunderstanding: It’s not even a response to anything
- What is so absurd about labelling something as effectively unbeatable because it requires players to know obscure knowledge that over 90% of people don’t know?
- You realize that it is possible to lose information, right?
Not having a modern human digestive physiology, most likely
Why?
Must I accept every last claim made to be considered reasonable?
Still, how will you get this magical substance that will get you to space?
If you’re using yourself as a source, then you may want to start using credible sources.
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Humans historically are cooked mammal meat but fish and shellfish we’ve always eaten raw. Plus why is this even relevant? It’s stupid and has nothing to do with anything.
Reminder: we used metal to make everything after 5,000 BC in the old world. (Not necessarily as a building material but as tools and weapons)
90% of people don’t know about metal, hm, wow fellow American, yeh, reminder: European public education teaches basic English words so that’ll only be an issue for Floridians.
Lost information makes bad sources. It’s fine to be human and mess up, but don’t expect to be treated like a genius.
Yeah prolly. It’s surprising how often people ignore that humans can evolve too.
So your stuff doesn’t shatter under stress. Ever try making spindly moving components out of stone? Crack
No. You just have to have a comprehendible counterargument
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It is sad that now, I don’t even know what the point of arguing about this anymore. I feel this thread has lost its purpose.
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What about windmills? Or watermills? They’re often pretty belgium in their materials
They do, they just don’t understand the little details of how we got it. Either way, it’s equally unattainable
No, but a lot of people before us have made such components out of wood
try making those without metal. specifically gearboxes and large windmills. All the societies i’ve ever heard of that used wind power had metal. metal effects a whole society. pvc doesn’t contain smelted metal but no ones saying that cave people could make any.
oh. well well only people smart enough to deduce you need fire to smelt metal, who can also read a ten second tutorial on how they need to develop a few specific structures to make metal, and are good enough learners to remember what the tutorial said will be able to play. sighh, only the nerdist nerds will ever want to play this (highly scientific, marketed to nerds,) game. so sad.
you know what weirds me out? how many people play subnautica. i mean, im sure most of us arent free-divers, nor submarinests, and i’ve never been to an alien planet, so i shouldnt be able to play that game right?
the player can go into the tech tree and think “well i need metal to beat these guys or mine that stuff so whats the prerequisite?” and just see them.
which components? windmill shafts that attach to incredibly sturdy wooden gearboxes? wooden boats that have wooden steam engines on them? hm, maybe the fact that some components were made out of wood for a time doesnt mean everything can be.
A lot of people have already tried and succeeded, as you can find out with a minimal amount of research
What is the proof? How do we know that advancement is caused by metal, rather than metal being a common symptom of advancement in a fiery animal. Also, why is it so inconceivable that this could be otherwise that we must force it to be so?
Because everyone plays games while reading a tutorial for the next part of the game. And why should we expect a game like Thrive to be winnable without following someone else’s grand plan?
Yes, that’s it
My sanity ran out, @BurgeonBlas is now silenced for a week. If things continue going badly after that as well, I think I’m about ready to close this underwater discussion again, and it will not be opened again until someone makes the full proof from start to finish that underwater civs can advance to the space stage starting from naturally underwater occurring resources.
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