Basic immune system idea

I have an idea i think sounds fun for a basic infection/immune response system.

Once you unlock a circulatory system every time you evolve thereโ€™s a chance (which should probably depend on difficulty) of a pop-up showing up telling you your organism has been infected. What this means is 3 species of microorganism have taken residence in your bloodstream, a new tab appears in the editor, the immunology tab, showing all three species, which could be either randomly generated or randomly selected from the microbial playthrough, their names and appereance and maybe a screen showing little selection of clips of them floating around your bloodstream. If you donโ€™t deal with the little buggers your organism will get a debuff (maybe a decrease in blood resources, or metabolism, or a percentage reduction in population, or maybe a different one for each species of bacteria; but i think they should be negligible enought that unless you are in a hard mode you could ignore them).

Fortunately by modifying some vein tissue, at the cost of MP, you get access to a primitive lymph node, and with it your first immune cell. By going to the immunology tab you can modify the cell, which will be shown under the infectious bacteria, to make it a killing machine. It should be based on the core cell like in the multicellular stage, and youโ€™d be able to modify it by only adding external parts (cilia, flagellum, the spike of which i donโ€™t remember the name) and the toxisome, these parts wouldnโ€™t cost anything but youโ€™d only be able to place two or three.

Letโ€™s say for example you try designing a big microphage with a flagellum, it could only work if you a cell membrane that allows engulfing and if you have a high enough metabolism to have a flagellum (Resources however should not matter for the microorganism and for your cell, as the blood would provide a constanthuge amount). After you are done designing the cell the game would run a small round of simulation to show which of the microbe species it would be able to kill (a simulation might not even be necessary you could just compare the speed, damage or if the cell wall can be eaten), and maybe the screen shows random clips of the cell killing, or failing to kill, the microbe. If itโ€™s able to kill all three great, no debuffs, if one manges to survive you only get a 1/3 of the full debuff, and so on.

The next time you evolve, however, youโ€™ll find you werenโ€™t the only one who did so and another pop-up might appear telling you the microorganisms evolved and you are infected once again, you go to the immunology tab and find out one has evolved a flagellum and another has evolved a cellulose cell wall and your slow moving macrophage isnโ€™t able to deal with either. This happened because the computer ran a small autoevo simulation to see if the microorganisms could evolve to survive. To deal with this, if you donโ€™t want any debuffs, you can upgrade the primitive limph node again, giving you access to a second immune cell, which you can modify to cover the weaknesses of the other one that you can no longer modify; letโ€™s say you make a toxin producing cell that targets the oxygen based metabolism of the two microbes, the game calculates if its able to defeat the microbes and gives you the debuffs accordingly.

After evolving a third time you can, if necessary, modify the lynph node a third time to unlock the final immune cell, lets say you make another toxic cell that targets anerobic metabolism or a ram-like cell with the spike and a fluid membrane for speed. Once again the game does its necessary calculations, shows you your cells in action and you move on.

Finally if somehow after all this a microorganism evolves who is able to escape all three of your cells (maybe the higher the difficulty the higher the rate of mutation) you can upgrade the lymph node to a kind of thymus for the final time and make it so your immune cells also go through auto-evo to always be able to kill the infectious cells.

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Welcome to forum, @Jpeach!

A few people have suggest adding immune systems to the game. Also, donโ€™t forget, the innate immune system evolved first before the adaptive immune system. And there are other immune systems, like lectin-based innate immune systems used by Plants and Fungi (mushrooms). Even CRISPR-CAS found in Bacteria, and its analogue in Archaea, have been considered as a prokaryotic immune system/response against Viruses.

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Thank you!

I donโ€™t know a lot about the evolution of the immune system or its differences in another organisms, i do know more about it in humans and this barely scratches the surface. However i think that as cell-centric as thrive is this is as complex as we can make the immune system

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Welcome to the Forum Jpeach!

As for the idea itself, I think the immune system could perhaps drain some resources instead of getting none so that perhaps at times of need you can spend more resources on it if you get infected.

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Welcome to the forum @Jpeach!

As far as I know most disease symptoms we experience(stuffy nose, coughing, sore throat etc) are caused by the immune system fighting back against the disease. So if Iโ€™m right then thereโ€™s also that to consider

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I think imflamation would have the largest impact out of all of them in the evo stages at least.

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You donโ€™t need to have a circulatory system to have diseases. Plants, for example, donโ€™t have a circulatory system, but they still have diseases.

Another difference in plants is that instead of specialized cells, they use antibacterial toxins that they produce at the site of infection.

Perhaps, in the case of plants, you will select and target the toxin rather than the immune cells. (For example, rapid-fire cyanide effectively destroys small cells.)

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I know, most diseases even in humans donโ€™t infect the blood, so you definetly dont need a circulatory system to be infected. But as the kind of immune system i think would fit thrive best and would be the most fun, a cell based one, evolved from the circulatory system and needs it to function it wouldnโ€™t be fair for you to be infected before you could anything about it, so its just a way to simplify the system. I donโ€™t think everything should be as realistic as possible in this game, it would make it basically impossible to include evrything that evolved in billions of years and it would make the game extremely tedious.

Also while it didnโ€™t happen on earth i donโ€™t think it would be impossible for plants to evolve cell based immunity, maybe not microphages but something else, it would be up to the player. And if i remember correctly plants do have a sort of circulatory system, at least vascular plants do.

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The thing is how do you make leukocyte-like cells from cellwalled bases?

You could make, for example, a cytotoxic cell that produces toxins, or a cell that slows the bacteria down and injects them with venom

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Not sure either would help vs viruses. Donโ€™t plants also use the scorched earth tactic against infections or am I misremembering stuff?

I donโ€™t think viruses should be implemented in thrive, but if itโ€™sjust speculation they could, just like in humans, have a system to recognize infected cells and kill them, thus stopping the viruses replication

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I think they would be implemented at least for the strategy stages.
Should cancer also be a thing to worry about?

A Plants Vascular system functions very similar to a Circulatory system. A portion of our own Circulatory system is our Cardio-VASCULAR system. They are basically equivalent.

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Even if they have a vascular system the question is if cellwalled cells are good material for a proper immune systemโ€ฆ

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Donโ€™t give plants any ideasโ€ฆ

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Not like they can hear us right nowโ€ฆ or can they?

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Apparently from preliminary research, flowers might be used to detect sounds like earsโ€ฆ

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Some plants already can detect touch so this isnโ€™t too surprising

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Primitive animals (such as sponges, jellyfish), plants, fungi, etc. have immunity based on the use of toxins (against viruses they use microbial defense mechanisms such as RNA), the primitiveness of which is compensated by their high endurance and regenerative abilities.

In my opinion, making an immune system only for organisms with blood would be too inaccurate.

Also, your system does not take into account the outer coverings.

In my opinion, the system you proposed is overcomplicated in some aspects and may also require a load on the CPU.

With the transition to the macroscopic stage, a pathogenic mish will emerge that can be occupied by auto-evo microbes, negatively impacting the population of macroscopic organisms (as in predation). And in organism mode, if you sustain an injury with external damage or pass near a sick person, you can become infected.

During an infection, your body functions less efficiently and can even die if it reaches 100%. Your immune system begins a kind of โ€œtug-of-warโ€ with the infection, where it tries to reduce the infection to 0% by curing it completely. It does this somewhat randomly, so for organisms with low immunity, infection is not a 100% death sentence, and for organisms with high immunity, this will not allow them to relax too much. The chance of getting infected depends on the skin and how well your immune system fights the infection.

In primitive organisms without a circulatory system, in the immunity tab, you simply select a toxin that will work against infections (for example, cyanide will be effective against aerobic pathogens), the effectiveness of your immune system against the pathogen will be calculated by auto-evo, as with toxin predation. After the circulatory system appears, you configure cells that will fight pathogens instead of toxins on this tab; the auto evo calculations will be the same as for predation.

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