Biomes

Part 2

Now let’s talk “Vegetation”.

First, I think “Vegetation” should be defined as: Sessile Organism or Floating Organisms with no powered propulsion. This allows a much more diverse variety of “Vegetation”, such as Thermosynthetic Vegetation, Sulfur or Iron Eating Vegetation, or even Radiotrophic Vegetation (this also allows for Electotrophic Vegetation, but that ability is not currently represented in Thrive (yet)). In most cases, outside of Allochthonous Energy Biomes (described in more detail below), Vegetation would likely be the “Primary Producer” of any biome, but this is probably unnecessary to track.

Secondly, one thing I like about Thrive is the ability to mix abilities that, to our knowledge, did not evolve together on Earth, as well as to take abilities that, on Earth, never became Multicellular, and evolve them into something more complex. I think it is inevitable that AutoEvo will make Bitrophic and/or Mixotrophic Multicellular Organisms, some of which will go on to be Macroscopic (not to be confused with Macroscopic Colonies of Microscopic Organisms (aka: Microbial Mats), but more on those later). Additionally, depending on how the transition from Multicellular to Macroscopic is handled, there is always the possibility of having Vegetation of two different Trophic Lineages, or, more likely, of discovering “Vegetation” on another planet that relies on a different type of Autotrophy than the type on your home world. My suggestion for this this is to give each trophic group their own Prefix, as well as having a clear hierarchy for which order to list the prefixes when the Vegetation qualifies for 2 or more, and, for ease of presentation, dropping the most common Prefix on your world (example: on Earth most Vegetation are Green Photosynthesizers (bearing in mind that Brown and Red Seaweed are not Green), so the Prefix for “Green Photosynthesizer” would just be assumed if another is not directly mentioned).

Naming is not a strong suit of mine, but here are a few suggestions for prefixes:

  • Phototrophic: By Color (example: Green, Brown, or Red Seaweed Forest)
  • Thermotrophic: Thermic/Caloric/Thermophagic
  • Chemotrophic: Sulfuric/Theîophagic
  • Lithotrophic: Ferric/Sidērophagic/Ferrophagic
  • Electrotrophic: Galvanic/Anodic/Electrophagic
  • Methanotrophic: Methanophagic
  • Heterotrophic (Filter Feeder): Planktivore (this could include Zoo Plankton like Krill and Brine Shrimp)
  • Heterotrophic (Engulfer/Detritrophic): Carnivorous/Parasitic
  • (Heterotrophic) Lysotrophic/Saprotrophic: Fungal

and my suggestion for the Prefix order:
Photo – Thermo – Chemo – Litho – Electro – Methano – Hetero – (Lyso/Sapro)

Next, we look at classifying different types of Vegetation. I suggest a 3 part system of: Cell Specialization, Size, and Rigidity. Some of these may seem unnecessary, but please bear with me and read through to see how I use some of these later before judging.

My suggestions for Sizes are:

  • Microscopic
  • Macroscopic Microbial Colony (here after abbreviated MMC)
  • Short Multicellular (here after abbreviated Short)
  • Tall Multicellular (here after abbreviated Tall)

As for Rigidity:

  • Soft
  • Medium
  • Hard

And for Cell Specialization:

  • Simple/None
  • Complex

First: the “Simple/None” Vegetation

  • Microscopic (Any Rigidity): Plankton (which will likely be handled mechanically more like compounds than organisms)
  • Soft or Medium MMC: Algal Mat
  • Hard MMC: Crustose Mat
  • Short Simple Multicellular: Seaweed
  • Tall Simple Multicellular: Giant Seaweed

Next, the “Complex Multicellular” Vegetation

  • Soft: Bryophyte/Moss
  • Short Medium: Short Herb
  • Tall Medium: Tall Herb
  • Short Hard: Shrub
  • Tall Hard: Tree

At some point, I think things like Vine-Like, Grass-Like (Hollow), Succulent (Stores lots of Water), and a few other things should be classified, for “resource” purposes, but, with the possible exception of Lianas (Tall Hard Vine-Like Vegetation that creates “bridges” up to and between (other types of) Trees), I don’t think those effect Graphics or Miches enough to be separated at this point in development.

Now for using these to define the Vegetation aspect of Biomes.

First, let’s start with Terrestrial Biomes that are dominated by Medium and/or Hard Vegetation (I will get to Soft exclusive shortly).

Herbland: Dominated by Herbs or by a mix of Soft Vegetation and Herbs.
Note: Labeled Short, Tall, or Mixed based on the sizes of the most populous Herbs/Soft Vegetation (Short
Herbland, Mixed Herbland, Tall Herbland).
Savanna: Dominated by a mix of Herbs and Hard (non-MMC) Vegetation, and having no Canopy.
Shrubland: Dominated by Shrubs.
Woodand: Dominated by a mix of Shrubs and Trees, or dominated by trees but lacking a Canopy.
Forest: Dominated by Trees and having a Canopy

Mossy (Hard Specific Name): Dominated by Bryophytes and Hard (non-MMC) Vegetation (example: Mossy Forest) (Probably unnecessary)

But what about Tundra’s, Desert’s, Barren’s, and Bryophyte Field’s, you might ask:

First: Tundra is a Climate classification (Subpolar). This means one could have: Tundra Herblands, Tundra Savannas, Tundra (Wetland)s, Tundra Bryophyte Fields, etc. I think this is better/easier than trying to classify the different types of Tundra by Vegetation (It is actually defined as being “To cold to grow Trees”, but we will see what AutoEvo has to say about that).

Second (Third and Forth):

  • Barrens: A Terrestrial (or Wetland/Coastal) Biome with Sparse or Limited Herbs, Shrubs, or Trees. There are several distinct types:
  • Uninhabited (Infertile): No life can survive for long in this environment due to harsh conditions.
  • Uninhabited (Fertile): Has fertile soil and fair climate, but for some reason is uninhabited.
  • Ghost Forest (Infertile): A barrens filled with the remains of a dead Forest, Woodland, or Shrubland.
  • Ghost Forest (Fertile): This fertile land has more dead Trees than living Vegetation.
  • Bryophyte Field (Infertile): Dominated by Soft Vegetation and has infertile soil.
  • Bryophyte Field (Fertile): Dominated by Soft Vegetation and has fertile soil.
  • Dessert: An Arid or Semi-Arid barrens that does not classify as a Tundra.
    • Sand Sea (Erg): A subtype of Desert that is one giant Dune Field (see Additional Traits below)
  • Large (Organism) Colony: Presence of a very large group of a Heterotrophic species, but sparse or limited Aware species, due (at least in part) to lack of Vegetation.

For Wetland Vegetation:
Swamp: A Forest, Woodland, or Shrubland Wetlands.
Marsh: A Herbland or Savanna Wetland.
Bog (): A Barren (Infertile) Wetland. (Note: On Earth, all Bogs are Peatlands, but rather than make up a new name for Non-Peatland Infertile Wetlands, I think it makes more sense to make Bogs not have to be Peatlands) (Note: () can be Uninhabited, Ghost Forest, Mossy Ghost Forest, or Bryophyte Field)
Peat Swamp: A Peatland Swamp.
Moorland: A Peatland Marsh.
Fen (Vegetation): A special type of Peatland, which can feature any type of “Fertile” Terrestrial Vegetation (Non-Barrens and Barrens (Fertile)) (Fen (Bryophyte Field), Fen (Herbland), Fen (Woodland), etc.).

Before getting into the Aquatic Vegetation aspect of Biomes, let’s define a couple more things:

Floating (Vegetation): Vegetation that is not attached to a stratum. Not used for Plankton (See Below) (Example: Floating Seaweed Forest (aka: Sargassum)).

Reef: A rigid, long and narrow, elevated, mostly or entirely submerged structure, made of either: a) many Small or Microscopic Sessile organisms and/or their corpses attached to each other as well as to a substrate; or b) of similarly relatively stable inorganic materials such as rocks or sand.

Reefs can be:

  • Biotic Reef: Listed as (Organism (Coral, Oyster, Sponge, Algal, etc,)) (Fringe, Barrier, Platform, or Atoll) Reef; (Example: Sponge Atoll Reef). A Biotic Reef can be Vegetative or Heterotrophic
  • Geological Reef: (Handled under “Additional Traits”)
  • Artificial Reef: (Will be handled when Athropogenic biomes are added later)

As, IRL, many Reef systems have other forms of Vegetation, and many do not, and bearing in mind that reefs can be either simple or complex, or tall or short, or in some cases even qualify as Crustose MMC, not to mention that some are geological and not organic, as well as some surviving on allochthonous energy while others are primary producers, I suggest, if it contains a “Reef”, it is a “Reef system”:

  • Reef System (): Contains a Reef. Can by Shallow Water (Sunlit) or Deepwater (Sunless).

Now, for Aquatic Biomes that are dominated by Simple Vegetation (and do not have a Reef):

  • Planktonic System: An open surface area that contains Clouds of free-floating Microscopic Organisms but no Macroscopic Vegetation (Note: Other areas may also contain Clouds of Plankton, but they will defined by their other traits).
  • Microbial Mat Ecosystem: A biome dominated by Algal Mats (It is my understanding that, Precambrian, these were once very wide spread) (note: these can be found in any environment, but it is my understanding they are rarer in purely Terrestrial environments, usually preferring the moisture of Aquatic and Hybrid environments, and thus should be treated as Aquatic for naming purposes).
  • Seaweed Bed: A biome dominated by Seaweed.
  • Seaweed Meadow: A biome dominated by a Mixture of Seaweed and Giant Seaweed.
  • Seaweed Forest: A biome dominated by Giant Seaweed.

For Aquatic Biomes that are dominated by Complex Vegetation, see Cross-Terrain Vegetation bellow.

Because “Barrens” does not really work for Aquatic Vegetation, I suggest the following as an Aquatic replacement:

  • Desolate Water: A vast area of uninhabited water.

I also suggest the following:
Allochthonous Energy Zone: A Biome whose primary production energy and/or nutrition comes from is outside of the Biome:

  • Flux Zone: Currents carry in food from outside the biome (listed as (Subtype) Zone):
    • Subtidal: Waves and/or nearby Estuaries disperse Energy from the nearby Intertidal Zone.
    • Upwelling: Prone to frequent Upwellings.
    • Geomorphic: Due to Geological features, currents are funneled into/through the area.
  • Open Depths: A deep water area whose main source of energy is Marine Snow.
  • Animal Forest: Dominated by Heterotrophic Vegetation that do not meet the criteria of a Reef and a lack of Autotrophic Vegetation.

I have been debating an alternative to Open Depths that might work in an area where matter falls from the sky to a Terrestrial biome, or from a Terrestrial biome to a Subterranean biome, but I am not sure about the name:

  • Organic Fall Zone:: A biome where organic material regularly falls down from above.

As far as Subterranean Vegetation, on Earth, there are actually Fruit and Flower bearing Vegetation that are adapted to spread their pollen below ground, and others whose bodies are more than 90% below ground, creating what some call “Underground Forests”, which are arguably Subterranean Vegetation. However, the first relies on a specific subtype of a specific reproduction method, and I am intentionally not using those for biome classification, and the second are extreme variants of growth qualities that are not exclusive to such plants and, in other circumstances, have little if any effect on biome classification, and I am not sure the best way to handle those just yet. Additionally, there is still the question of whether a more than 190 meters (630 ft) deep, 300 meters (1000 ft) long, and 150 meter (500 ft) wide sinkhole counts as Subterranean or Terrestrial, as well as Vegetation that does not rely on Photosynthesis. As such, I am not going to try to distinguish Subterranean Specific Vegetation categories at this time, though I do see traditionally Terrestrial, Aquatic, or Wetland Vegetation potentially ending up in a Subterranean Biome.

And on that note, here is my suggestion for Cross-Terrain Vegetation:

Much like with Trophic Groups, I think Vegetation should have the Major Terrain type listed before the Vegetation name, but drop the most likely Major type, while keeping the lesser types (Examples: Forest (Mountain), Aquatic Forest (Seamount), Terrestrial Seaweed Forest (Mountain), Seaweed Forest (Seamount); Subterranean Wetlands would be listed: Subterranean Riverine Swamp, Subterranean Tidal Peat Marsh, Subterranean Fen (Savanna), etc.) (This could also be used for Aquatic Bryophyte Fields, which do not meet the definition of Allochthonous Zone, but should not be called an Aquatic Barrens, as that defeats the purpose of the Allochthonous Zone category. Under this system, a Seagrass biome would be an Aquatic Herbland. As Wetlands and Coastal biomes are already both Terrestrial and Aquatic, some more thought on how to handle possibilities that may come up in those areas may be needed (example: Coastal Seaweed that remains underwater, Coastal Seaweed that remains above water, and Coastal Seaweed that lives in the tidal zone may or may not need differentiating).

For Floating Vegetation, there could be Floating (Aquatic) and Floating (Atmospheric) (in case Auto-Evo figures out how to evolve Hydrogen Balloon Plants) (in the case of a Floating Microbial Mat Ecosystem, it is only named that if it is not part of a larger Wetlands Biome (note: Aquatic subtype is assumed in this case because of Microbial Mats being defined as Aquatic)).

Again, I would love to hear your opinions on this. What do you think works well? What needs changing? Is there something you think is missing? Are their definitions you disagree with?

Finally, “Additional Traits” that might be worth noting, but don’t necessarily fit into other categories.
(Note: This is not a finalized a list, this is just what I have so far I thought was worth considering)
(Note: Some of these are of variable sizes, with particularly big one possibly being worth listing under terrain (worth further discussion))

Some possible Additional Traits include (but are not limited to): Minor Terrain, Tempestuous, Geologically Active, Oasis/Oases, Dune System, Drained Peatland, (Liquid)fall(s) (River, Glacial, Underwater), Boneyard, Geological Reef (Material), Geothermal () (); defined in more detail below.

Minor Terrain: This would include things like Small Lakes that are part of a larger biome.

Tempestuous: The area has frequent, often severe, Thunderstorms and/or Windstorms.

Geologically Active: The area has frequent Earthquakes, leading to Avalanches, Tunnel Collapses, Tsunamis, Volcanic Eruptions, etc., depending on other conditions.

Oasis/Oases: A (relatively) small area or areas of thriving fertility in the midst of a much larger area of Barrens.

Gallery Forest: A long, narrow Forest that follows a River or Wetlands.

Dune System: Due to either Wind or Water pushing around loose Sand, this area is known for its many, ever changing Sand Dunes. (Note: Sand deposits are not restricted to deserts, and dunes are also found along sea shores, along streams in semiarid climates, in areas of glacial outwash, and in other areas where poorly cemented sandstone bedrock disintegrates to produce an ample supply of loose sand. Subaqueous dunes can form from the action of water flow (fluvial processes) on sand or gravel beds of rivers, estuaries, and the sea-bed.)

Cloud (Biome): Frequently covered in Mist (usually at high altitudes or by the coast).

Drained Peatland: Peatlands are by definition a Wetland. However, a Peatland that accumulates peat, but then ceases to be a Wetland due to climate change or shifting geology, will still have an accumulation of peat, which still effects plant growth, amongst other things.

(Liquid)fall(s) (River, Glacial, Underwater): A place where a River or Stream, Meltwater from an Ice Shelf or other Glacial System, or Fluid of different temperature and/or density, flows over a vertical drop or a series of steep drops.

Boneyard: Presence of many large and sturdy bones for a long period of time.

[b]Geological Reef (Material):[b] A Reef made of inorganic material, such as sand or rock. Listed as (Material) Reef (examples: Bathypelagic Calcite Reef, Tropical Epipelagic Limestone Reef).

Geothermally Active: Contains any of the following:

  • Geothermal Vents (Mud Pot (1)(2), Hot Spring (1)(2), Geysers (1), Fumaroles (1)(3))
  • Gradient Hot Spring (Same subtypes as Geothermal Version)
  • Mud Volcano (Hot, Cold) (Water, Methane)
  • Cold-(fluid) Geyser
  • Cold Seep (Brine, Oil, Gas (Methane, Hydrate))
  • Methane Geyser (Pool, Field)
  • Volcano (Active, Dormant, Extinct)
  • Underwater Volcano (Active, Dormant, Extinct)
  • Ice Cauldron
  • Cryovolcano (Active, Dormant, Extinct)
  • Cryogeyser (Pool, Field))
    (Needs a little reformatting)

Vent Subtypes:
(1) Size:

  • Mud Pot: Pool, Field, or Lake
  • Hot Springs: Pool, Field, or Lake
  • Geysers: Pool or Field
  • Fumarole: Vent or Field

(2) Hot Springs and/or Mud Pot Fluid Type: Alkaline Chloride, Acid Sulfate, Bicarbonate, Iron-Rich, Mixed
(3) Fumaroles: Carbon Dioxide (Moffeta), Sulfur Oxides and Hydrogen Sulfide (Solfatara), Hydrogen Chloride, Hydrogen Fluoride, Methane

Putting the aside the . . . awkward presentation of Geothermal Activity (some of which could plausibly be integrated into Magmatic or Liquid biomes (a Lake sized Sulfuric Hot Springs for instance)), what do you think? Should any of these be absorbed into other categories? Are there some good traits I missed?

I sincerely hope the team finds at least part of this useful. It’s certainly not complete, but hopefully this can help to get a better view of what is needed, what is agreed upon, what needs more discussion, etc.

One more thing I would like to note: this system in general was designed to classify biomes on a smaller scale than what Thrive might need to use. For example, what Köppen calls a Mediterranean Biome is often a patchwork of varying Vegetation, and many Wetlands are patchworks of different subtypes I listed. Depending on how few/large of areas Thrive will be using, several aspects of this may be to small scale. It will be a while before I do any more significant work on this, but I will consider how a broader scope version might look.

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Why are there two “less than” conditions here?

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Wet is Less/Less
Rainy is Less/More
Rain(biome) is More/More
Wet is still more than Semi Arid.
I will rephrase Less/Less to “and” instead of “but”.

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Besides this the whole thing seems pretty cohesive. Are you planning to write the underwater civ thing in a similar fashion?

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That is being written in a very different fashion. Also, I am taking a break from that for now. I am satisfied with the parts I have finished writing out so far, and feel good about the research I have done on later parts, and the sources I have for the completed portion, but it is more time consuming than I though it would be, and I ended up with a lot of unexpected responsibilities this past half year, and now I have other things I need/want to do. I will probably be picking away at that on and off for some time. Part 1 will very likely not come out before 2.0.0.0, but oh well. It will get finished eventually. Shame it’s taking so long though.

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In how many % is part 1 finished now?

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2/3rds ish. It has grown in size a few times since I’ve started. It really doesn’t help that I have done half the research for parts 2-10 already, with a clear idea of what part 11 will be. I am trying to resolve myself to stop researching the later portions until I get closer to them but . . . I am ADHD, it is in my nature to get distracted and focus on the wrong thing. :person_shrugging:

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So will part 1 just be an introduction to the topic or will it already have the method for metalworking laid out?

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Part 1 is a means of Waterproofing things, including but not limited to: Mud Bricks, Wooden Mechanical Components, Future Metal Objects, etc. It will also include a means of preserving plant matter and food, an adhesive, and possibly a means of catching and moving air bubbles. Part 2 will feature fixing the one notable limitation to the chemical that is used in all of the above things. Part 3 will be about collecting materials from near the shore when the tide is high enough, including cutting down Swamp Trees and carving the Wood, as well as using Reeds to make rafts for transporting materials. Part 4 will be about making Mud Bricks, Clay Figurines and Jewelry, and making Waterproof Molds for low heat metal smelting. Part 5 will be about making Ethanol, Acetic Acid, and a really weak cement that is not really construction quality, but could be used as a not load bearing mortar. Part 6 will be about Additives to increase the strength of the cement to hopefully be construction quality (i need to research that part a little more). Part 7 will be proving that an UWC can discover and utilize all 6 simple machines (Inclined Plane, Wedge, Lever, Wheel and Axle, Pulley, and Screw), as well as Gears. Part 8 will be about proving they can make what equivalates to a 13th century AD double Tread-wheel Crane that pivots on Ball-bearings. Part 9 will be about discovering fire, and building a Brick and Mortar Wood burning Oven, lifting it out of the water with the aforementioned Crane, and using insulated Tin Wire and Eel Electricity as a starter, reaching temperatures around 500 C. Part 10 will be about making Pot Ash and using it to make Pulp, and using that to make Clay Pottery. It will also probably have Soap. Part 11, which I have not researched yet, will be realizing that wind makes the oven hotter, and researching and developing a Bellows, to make hotter out of water fires. At least, that is the current plan. Half of it hinges on getting Part 2 right.

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Do you also plan to maker followups after part 11 like what ferrus did?

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Probably, but that is as far as my current plan has been developed. I actually have a couple more ideas, but there are pieces in the middle that need more examining. For example, I think, assuming a “Water Pump” could be proven, an UWC could expand into land far more easily than a Terrestrial Civ could expand into water. Proving that said water pump can continuously move a useful amount of water a useful distance over a useful amount of time is not something I want to try to tackle until I have at least proven the above. Also, before tackling the water pump, I want to reexamine what Ferrus came up with for ideas, as well as see whether or not the second half of Holy Grail has anything useful (that essay has rather few working resources, does not explain certain things well, and has at least 2 mistakes in the first half, 1 of which is a small easy fix, one of which I intend to overcome in my part 10, but I actually did not really read the later half because of it).

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I was also thinking of an underwater civ using water pumps or stuff and some kind of elastic material to create some kind of a hose of running water to then crawl on land (requiring them to be on the lower side of sapient creature sizes) with that hose and begin doing stuff there instead, but I never had the courage to collect the probably ungodly amounts of papers needed to prove that

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So, this is obviously a lot, and while I did read it, I can’t be sure I processed all of it. I do like most of the criteria, so I am just going to pick out some specific things to comment on.

So if it is to be displayed (as a colour on a map for example), 135 is obviously too much. (though I suppose not all of them will be on every planet) Also keep in mind this is supposed to split up a planet into a limited number of “patches”/regions that are each treated as uniform, for example for auto-evo purposed.

For both of those reasons, it would be good to see how this can be condensed down into a smaller number of classifications.

I really don’t know if soil type tracking is something HH is going to/is in the plan.

This is a great example of something that is obviously biologically important. But are you really going to classify regions based on this?

Is the way a biome (in this case, a cave) was formed really something the player needs to see? Or is it better to only look at the structure of the cave? Mountains get formed in different processes as well.

I disagree. The point of the vegetation classification to me is to track life that largely determines the landscape. The biological side of “terrain”. So that’s very likely sessile, like trees and grass. But this is also regardless of trophic type, for example including tube worms near hydrothermal vents.


I do generally like your usage of vegetation attributes to determine the vegetation types.

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How many that is? Dozen or so?

I think a good approach to this is to have some general biomes for the map and when you hover over a point you get the more specific name (ex: polar biome → arid polar savanna)
What is the max of colors reasonable to a map? 30?

It could be a alternate map visualization? This way players could get to see this data without it needing to bloat the main map.

Same, i think considering vegetation as the more broad primary producers is a good choice, because it would give more liberty for non-lawk planets and would give an foundation to implement ecology

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Would the “general” biomes be larger than the “true” biomes or would they use the same scale?

In most cases, this would be listed in a more detailed panel. That being said, an area that drastically changes DO on a daily basis, growing during the day an shrinking during the night, would be really notable.

On Earth, all Sessile animals are Aquatic, and under Allochtonous Zone I listed 2 heterotrophic vegetation.

This is THE difference between a Beach and a Swamp. This also is how Peatlands are determined. In most cases, this would be background information, like DO, though there are a few cases (notably Coastal biomes) where it might be worth noting.

The structure is often a result of/closely related to how they were formed. This may not always be the case. Admittedly, Subterranean needs more work. I will take that into consideration.

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Could it be possible for the soil part of the simulation to be minimal until the strategy stages? So that only what is actually required to determine these biomes apart is implemented at first and only the full simulation is implemented when it matters more for the player.

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Unfortunately I am not sure of an exact number yet, I will have to consult with the rest.

It’s not just for visualisation. The world map needs to create regions that act as a singular unit for simulation purposes. So that is inevitably going to need more generalised classifications. Hypothetically, if we have a continent that spans from north to south but can only assign, say, 7 regions to that continent, then we’re probably not going to distinguish between two neighbouring climates that have one difference in rainfall pattern.

That was a comment on your idea of mobile organisms also being “vegetation”. I am purely saying vegetation should be determined by sessile organisms that determine the terrain, regardless of trophic type.

To be honest, I would ignore trophic type in vegetation/biome classification entirely.

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Is a region the smallest area of simulation the world map will operate on? If so, considering the relatively small amount of regions per a continent, we would be forced to use something simpler, perhaps more akin to a koppen climate classification system + vegetation and some other noteworthy criteria, but certainly not on the level of what Poodelicus proposed.