The current macroscopic temperature tolernces system proposed by the developers is pretty silly: High surface increases heat tolerance but decreases cold tolernces and vice versa. Because of this exists silly paradox of first smallest macroscopic organism who will die from freeze because high surface and small volume.
This looks very stupid considering how thermoregulation works in reality. For example: polar bear and polar fish are both cold resistant, but polar bear have high body temperature and contains it like thermos, while polar fish have low body temperature and survives using low temperature adapted biochemistry and antifreeze in blood.
Instead its better to separate body and ambient temperatures on macroscopic stage. Body temperature changes by two factors: ambient temperature and metabolic rate.
High SA/V - body temperature fater changes by ambint temperature, lower metabolic effect
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aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
2
Do you think the values of the two temperature tolerances the player starts with in macro should be both dictated by their micro-stage tolerance values and the sort of patch they’re in?
@aah31415
Tolerance values now dictate tolerance to organism temperature values, not ambient.
Warm-bloodedness allows the body to have narrow tolerance values for temperatures and at the same time be adaptable to wider climates.
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aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
4
So having a wide tolerance would be rather associated with cold-bloodness than warm-bloodness… Which makes sense ig
Did you read my proposed alterations to the first design proposal? With those this problem you mention straight up does not exist.
Both of which are different ways of adapting to a lower temperature. That’s not necessarily a distinction we have to make into two separate stats. For example, adapting biochemistry could be “moving the slider towards cold” while adding more fur is a skin option that provides an offset towards cold.
So this requires keeping track of the body temperature. What is the concrete improved gameplay experience from this? And how does this improve the player’s actual behaviour to be closer to representing real biology?
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aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
6
How would hibernation work with temperature tolerances for the warm blooded animals? I presume it’d be like at the lower end of their temp tolerance when the metabolic activity is low?
Well, this is the benefit of still just keeping temperature tolerance to one slider concerning the environment and not trying to track the internal temperature state:
We can just not worry about this question.
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aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
8
I presume warm/cold blood divide will still exist and be rather important ingame right?
I think it makes sense to simply add up temperature tolerances and the effects of metabolism and SA/V. For example, an organism has a temperature tolerance of 25°C with a temperature tolerance radius of 1°C, but its actual tolerances would be calculated as follows:
Lower temperature tolerance limit (24) - 1 / SA/V(0.25) (gigantotermy factor) - highest metabolism modifier (3) / SA/V(0.25) / skin cold tolerance modif(0.8) = Total lower temperature tolerance(5°c)
Higer temperature tolerance limit (26) + 1 / SA/V(0.25) (gigantotermy factor) - lowest metabolism factor(1) / SA/V(0.25) * skin heat tolerance modif(0.9) = Total higher temperature tolerance(26,4°c)
I also think the temperature tolerance system needs to be reworked. Instead of having a sudden bonus at a small temperature tolerance, it would be better to have a gradually increasing bonus from -25 metabolic rate at a tolerance of 25°C to +25 at a tolerance of 1°C (no buffs or debuffs at 12°C temperature tolerance limits).
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aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
12
Would those be shown alongside the “raw” tolerances?
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was getting at. If you think about it, this is already how tolerances work right now, with a mixture of a slider and the various organelle effects.
This is really an overall design of the tolerance system that I am not entirely happy with. So this would be a rework of the system as a whole if somebody ever gets to it. (of course, the fact that something like it will still exist in Macroscopic changes the calculus a bit)
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aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
17
I feel like the overall cell size is a fair bit different from organelle effects
So you’re not happy with this proposal but still see it as a valid system rework?
