Categorization of Resources in the Society Stage

About a month ago I was thinking about how the game could divide up resources in a way that makes for functional UI in the Society stage that also takes into account both the large variety of resources a society actually needs and potential for an alien planet to have access to different natural resources.

To give an example of what I mean, concrete is an important resource for construction, but is the game going to consider limestone, gypsum, rock/gravel and sand individual resources? Most likely not, but how would it collapse them together? Sand has uses of its own beyond concrete (glass mainly, but also sandpaper, primitive filters, agriculture…), would rock and limestone be lumped in together? Perhaps these should all be collapsed into a single “mineral” resource alongside mud and clay.

How would organic materials be grouped together? Wood (and analogues), fiber, skin/leather/hide, furs, bones, ivory, shells, whatever else might evolve. Many of these could be fine as a single resource, but wood is incredibly versatile. Wood is used as a material for making structures and tools, for burning to make fire or charcoal, for paper, for some species it might even be food, and there may be planets where their given wood analogue may not be able to provide all these uses.
Because of this I think it would be best if the material that wood would belong to was defined by its use as fuel, and its uses for other things could be instead an ‘external’ matter defined by its other properties, likely unlocked via options made or not made available in the tech tree.

For example, on a planet where there is plenty of combustible organic material (leaves, fruiting bodies, whatever), but all the “trees” instead use stems partly made of silica or calcium carbonate, the player simply wouldn’t be able to unlock the option to make things like structures or tools out of the “biofuel” resource they harvest, and harvesting the “tree” stems would simply provide “minerals” to make other things out of. Likewise, on a world with traditional wood, if your species is able to digest it, perhaps you can start the society stage with the ability to also use your “biofuel” resource in place of your food resource.

In this case you could have (working names) Minerals, Organics, Biofuel, Food, and Water. Potentially Tools and Luxuries, too. Not bad for the early Society Stage. Add in one more resource for Metals and you’re probably golden until Industrial, where you’d probably have it somewhat easier as the many resources at that point have more standard ways of categorizing them (structural metals, precious metals, fossil fuels, radioactive material, etc.).

I definitely don’t envy the developers that are gonna have to think about this stuff and implement it because it’s probably going to be a mess, especially in stages after Society where the potential amount of resources could balloon rapidly, but I think they’ll be able to make it work once it comes down to it. I’m interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this topic.

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Welcome to the forum @MysteryMeat !

I think this could indeed by a good solution to cap the amount of resource types one would have to deal with, at least for the society stage standards.

I think maybe things like “minerals” could have certain subtypes with modification to the baseline resource stats as to at least represent a part of their range of variety?

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Welcome, @MysteryMeat! This all sounds very good. Oddly enough, if the Player species ends up similar to a moving tree (which could be possible), would the Player species be able to use the dead of their own kind as fuel/resource?

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(About ahh’s point about minerals) Yeah I guess if you wanted to you could split the minerals one at least into one extra one since my description of it lumps together a lot of things but I don’t know where I would draw that dividing line. Though I don’t quite understand how you mean the subtypes would work.

(About Anthropo’s point about) I actually didn’t give that any thought, since that would have to do with body disposal/rituals. I guess the player would be allowed to make it so that dead members of their species are “harvested” for food and “organics”, and in this case “biofuel”. I think that would ultimately depend on what your species is made of.

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So for instance various types of rock/stone

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I meant like, how it would work mechanically. Do you mean like, a separate resource for (for example) marble or granite?

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I meant a subtype, so it would base it’s interactability on the base type of the resource + whatever it itself adds into the mix

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Oh so you mean like, you’d have for example 500 Mineral and you’d be able to click on it to see that for example 200 of that is marble, and having marble specifically would have certain unique effects (like changing the way your buildings look or something). Am I getting that right?

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Yeah I think that’s mostly correct to my idea

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Welcome to the forum @MysteryMeat!

For the record, most plants, including seaweed, can be used to make paper (I think it’s the cellulose), wood is unnecessary to use for that. Also, the usefulness of bones and shells would greatly depend on their size, shape, and strength, which can not only vary a lot from species to species, but even within a species (compare a femur, a rib, a vertebrae, and a skull).

As for the minerals, not only does Limestone lead to some distinct geological features, but all concrete recipes, as well as most if not all underwater setting adhesive recipes that don’t require early space stage synthetic chemical manufacturing technology, seem to require lime. So I personally think Limestone is worth distinguishing from other rocks and sand. Although, I believe lime can be acquired from mollusc shells as well.

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I recall gypsium can also make some surface and subterranean features with water around

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I was trying to just go kinda broad strokes and collapse stuff together as much as possible, perhaps to a fault. Also that was purely on the ui side, the idea wasn’t that sand, clay, gypsum, gravel and limestone would look identical in the geography, just for them to functionally provide the same resource, so the visual aspect of limestone formations is unaffected here either way. But yes Lime being its own resource could be an exception.

Alternatively, ahh’s idea of having the broad resources actually contain subtypes might come in handy, since limestone can still be built with normally. If you’re going to sub-categorize resources like that you might as well take advantage of it, and I do think it could be a good idea.
It leaves the ui uncluttered until you want to look at a specific category and still lets you have many types of resources, though there is still the risk of high complexity as a result of having so many resources.
Then again, I doubt the devs will need or want to represent every rare earth metal or lanthanide or actinide, so some amount of culling will be in place anyway. (Who cares about ytterbium, for example?)

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How many subcategories over ALL the major resource types do you think would there be?

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Guhhhhhh I have no idea. That’s the kind of thing that doesn’t come into specifics until you have it in front of you.
I guess to try and make a rough idea:

  • Stone - Flint, Obsidian(?), Limestone
    Past that, how many different types of “generic” rocks like basalt, granite, etc the devs want to represent is up to them I think. Really if it weren’t for it being volcanic glass I would just fold obsidian in with flint (ideally under a better name that represents them both) but maybe I’m overcompressing things again.
    Representing various kinds of rock could cause bloat but if carefully selected it could represent the varying features of different rocks well (quartzite, basalt and granite are really strong but hard to shape, sandstone and marble are good for carving, slate is good for roof tiles, gravestones and writing tablets because it splits into flat sheets easily, etc…)
  • Minerals - Sand/Silica, Clay, Mud, Gypsum, Sulfur(?)
  • Fuel - Wood (& Equivalents, whether these Alien Woods just get called ‘wood’ or if the devs come up with new, fancy and appropriately alien names for them is up to them), Charcoal, Oils, Fats, Wax, Peat, Alcohols
  • Metals - Tin, Zinc, Copper, Bismuth, Lead, Silver, Gold, Bronze, Brass, Iron, Steel, Mercury(?)
    This is kinda a lot (especially once Industrial adds a few more) but making it so only the ones you actually have discovered show up could help unclutter things. Bismuth, mercury, zinc, antimony, and arsenic for example saw limited use and so could only be included if you’re actually using them (perhaps in some weird edge case where your planet doesn’t have a lot of tin so you make bronze and whatever out of other stuff instead or something). This resource category is bound to be the most crowded by far.
  • Water - Speaks for itself. This wouldn’t just be for drinking, but agriculture, construction, etc.
  • Food - Actually interesting to think about, the amount of stuff here would most likely depend a lot on both the diet of your species and what you actually have available. I would probably give individual crops and livestock an ‘entry’ here. So to use earth some examples: Pigs, Cows, Sheep, Potatoes, Carrots, Apples. Obviously this takes advantage of the fact that the game won’t give a realistic variety of crops and livestock, otherwise this would be hopelessly bloated. Also a broad sub-category for spice would be good I think.
  • Organic Materials (Bad horrible name but it’s fine) - Animal skins, Leather, Fiber (including plant fibers, wool, silk, etc…), Bone, Ivory, Natural Plating or Shells…
    This is a little hard to say because of the potential of the kinds of things you could hypothetically harvest from living alien creatures.

This should be a rough guess at what a good encompassing of the natural resources a player might find and use in the Society Stage. The specifics would naturally be refined during actual development which is pretty far off as of now.

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Wouldn’t some harvested materials like “animal” skin and fibers potentially act as fire-starters, similar to Belgium material (a tentative name I have given to wood-y equivalents due to the word being censored by the Belgium filter).

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Yeah it’s another case of allowing resources to be used in the place of others under some conditions coming in handy.

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Would be useful for explosives

Maybe Xylem?

Useful for temperature before one invents electrical ones

Isn’t this used to stop rusting? Seems pretty important to me

What would differenciate ivory and bone exactly?

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I suppose that would work yeah.

Ivory is specifically tusks (for gameplay purposes you Could include teeth too), it’s smooth and shiny with lines or rings (bones are rough, dry and porous), ivory is also harder (cuts better) and (generally) breaks less easily than bone, while bone is more resistant to fracture. Ivory is sold as a luxury material because its good for carving and generally looks nicer, and is also rarer than bone, making it more expensive and sought after. But I think you are right on that whether this is enough to differentiate them on a gameplay level is a good question.

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Yeah, I presume maybe the difference would be anatomical only since we don’t know how would alien bones/teeth be structured like

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Yeah actually you are right that ivory and bone are distinctions that may not exist on an alien world, and “bones” how we know them may not quite exist either. Same deal as wood, just less problematic since here it would just need a change in name at most (and even then “Bone” is probably broad enough to be serviceable).

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