Culture - Concept

Culture!

Culture is a bit hard to define but I personally define it as a combination of social laws, language(s) and social systems of a population of a species. Culture can range from a particular group of apes knocking on wood every other night to a large continent spanning societal agreement.

In this conceptual writing I will be focusing on the culture of sapient animals, I will also be expanding some parts of the colonization system.

The Beginning

The player will spawn the very first culture to arise at the end of the awakening stage. The player can advance their culture using the tech tree as well as changing societal norms and laws within the culture. In the meantime, different cultures will arise. The player can spread their culture by migrating their pops to different patches, although they will have to be similar in habitat so the culture doesn’t adapt to the changes and splinter off.

The Rise

Culture is at its height of importance during the Society-Industrial stages. Once the player builds their first society centre, the game will allow them to customize their culture a bit more and they’ll have more options as for how they will interact with foreign cultures. In the culture tab, there will be a line which goes from “Exterminate” to “Coexist” and in the middle will be “Indifference”. The player will be able to create and enforce taboos, languages and clothing. In order to spread the culture, the player will be able to send settlers to unowned lands. If the lands are already inhabited by a different culture, the player can either subdue and hybridize with their culture, incorporating the best traits (See: Roman Empire), exterminate and drive the culture away (See: European Colonialism in the Americas) or become a multicultural and peaceful society (although the player likely won’t advance very quickly if they choose this path). The player will have a multitude of options if they choose to send settlers to unowned lands. The player can do “Cultural Expansion Decree” where they simply send people to the new lands to make their own nations, albeit in the same culture as the player or as directly owned by the player’s state. The player will also be able to do the C.E.D on lands who’s Cultures were driven away via conquest.

The End (Sci-FI mode on / late Industrial Stage to late Space Stage)

Keeping a planet unified is hard with certain cultures, so the player will have to globalize their main culture in order to progress. This can be done via a multitude of paths such as having a multicultural society or hybridizing the conquered people’s cultures into one planetary culture. Culture during the Space Stage will be simplified for the sake of not overwhelming the player, it will be simplified into how many people are in the culture and what their rules/customs and clothing are. The C.E.D will also be making a comeback in the Space stage as their will be uninhabited areas to colonize once again, without bloodshed.

What’s the point of setting up cultural colonies you don’t directly control?

Cultures the same or similar to yours give benefits, such as being able to be unified easier, persuaded easier and are much less likely to attack you.

That’s all for the culture concept for Thrive! I spent a lot of time writing this…

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I’d argue it should happen earlier since other great apes apparently also have cultures

Does the player lose the game otherwise?

I doubt this would happen irl until later into space stage, so maybe only some % of globalization (in other fields) should be needed

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Depending on how long, this is comedic timing. I slowly wrote this over several months: Awakening and beyond: Culture - Gameplay - Thrive Development Forum

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I feel like awakening discourse has overall attained much attention lately…

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I just noticed we posted about the same system within 24-48 hours lol

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Do you have anything to say bout my feedback?

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Not just great apes, but cetaceans, some birds, rats, bat, and debatably some fish, all have cultures.

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Not necessarily. AFAIK whether the player controls a state or a culture is still up to debate.

I suppose you do have a point.

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So would it just be an overall aware stage unlock?

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As the examples at the start probably suggested, while traditionally seen as a human trait, there has been plenty of research on culture in non-human animals as well. Which means there is an argument for introducing the Culture system late in the Aware Stage.
. . .
However this would also have clear issues

It is being debated. I personally lean towards it being a “late in the Aware Stage” feature.

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So I presume earlier aware stage “cultures”, like the ones in

Would be reinterpreted as sth else then?

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The player can spread their culture by migrating their pops to different patches, although they will have to be similar in habitat so the culture doesn’t adapt to the changes and splinter off.

I think it’s better for fragmentation to occur based on distance rather than habitat. Texas doesn’t share the same culture as Northeast Brazil (a very arid region). Okay, that wasn’t the best comparison, but you get the idea.

I think the best way to handle fragmentation is through a sort of “influence” mechanic: to make things simple, let’s call one culture “Culture 1” and the other “Culture 2.”

Let’s imagine a scenario where Culture 1 is stronger (the criteria for “stronger” could vary). It would generate a radius within which nearby cultures begin to adopt certain characteristics of Culture 1. If Culture 2 is close to Culture 1, it will be affected by it.

However, Culture 2 also generates its own sphere of influence—weaker, perhaps, but still present—meaning that some smaller parts of Culture 1 would also shift toward Culture 2.

Over time, this would result in the two cultures merging into one, variations of the same culture, alternating cultural dominance, and many other possibilities.

so the culture doesn’t adapt to the changes and splinter off.

Does the player lose the game otherwise?

As far as I’ve seen in *Thrive*, the player controls a species, so I think they should be able to control any culture belonging to that same species.For the hybridization process, I think it’s better if it acts as an accessibility discount for the foreign culture. If a nearby culture has it, you’ll get a cost discount to implement that specific rule. If the cost reaches 0, it activates immediately, but the player is warned about it. If the rule goes against one already active, the discount will also apply to removing that rule; if the cost reaches 0, the opposing rule is replaced by the one from the other culture.

For the hybridization process, I think it’s better if it acts as an accessibility discount for the foreign culture. If a nearby culture has it, you’ll get a cost discount to implement that specific rule. If the cost reaches 0, it activates immediately, but the player is warned about it. If the rule goes against one already active, the discount will also apply to removing that rule; if the cost reaches 0, the opposing rule is replaced by the one from the other culture.

Note: I haven’t read the section on the game’s cultural mechanics yet, so I’m not sure if what I’m saying is redundant or not.

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I presume before indu there should also be opposite, culture splitting processes that make sure you don’t get a global culture too early?

Well the same is NOT true for the controlled society…

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Like, from the start? I would say no. Even with that give list, there are still a lot of sentient species that don’t have “learning transferred between individuals”. You need some level of intelligence combined with actually living in social groups I think.

Fish are Aware, and I don’t know exactly which examples there are of “fish culture” but if they really fit the bill it would appear that they are "late-stage Aware.

I think the argument is more "if Texans colonised North Brazil and the Amazon, after 200 years Texas Texans would be more similar to the former Texans in North Brazil than to the former Texans in the Amazon. We’re taking here Culture to include a bunch of behaviours including technology and how they use the land around them.

This is true up to Awakening, but I think in Awakening/Society, we’ll move towards controlling a culture among other cultures of the same species.


The rest of what you’re saying is pretty compatible with the concept I wrote I think.

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…Which seems rather strange as their brains are amongst the more primitive ones in vertebrata

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I was just basing that on the statement “some fish have culture”, I have done no research on this.

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Some experiment involving the translocation of fish showed evidence that French Grunts migration routes to schooling sites on coral reefs and where Blueheaded Wrasse choose as mating sites were both learned and not instinctual.

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I think there is still a large chunk of a boundary between a creature that learns and a creature that has cultures, right?

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Fish were listed in the link about “culture in non-human animals”, so I listed them. That is apparently why they were listed. I am on the fence about it being called culture. But apparently it was enough for Wikipedia. If Thrive defines culture in a way that does not count, than it is not something I think is worth fighting over.

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I mran I’d think you’d need a brain considerably more advanced than the one of a fish to get cultures…

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