Something that came up in discussion here is how an Aware creature that lives in a groups and/or crafts there home would handle transitioning from Aware to Awake to Social, or more specifically, if it would be possible to pick up a tool and skip straight to Social without having an Awake stage at all. I have been thinking about this for some time, and I think I have a definition for Social Center that could avoid this. It involves 2 parts:
The Social Center would be a physical structure that, at least in part, requires tools to make. For example: a natural cave on it’s own would not count, but a cave that had a hand carved door added and/or was expanded with tools might. Also, a burrow or hive/hill/mound that was made entirely with teeth/claws/other body parts would not count, but if some crafted support beams were added it might.
I have three ideas for the second rule:
A. The Social Center requires members of multiple families who sleep other places to gather every so often. For example: few if any live in a City Hall, but there are a lot of people in it all the time. With this version, in the case of a Wolf Den, if members of other packs with there own separate dens visited regularly, it could qualify as a Social Center. For Eusocial, it would require multiple physically seperate mounds/hills/hives to cooperate with each other.
B. The Social Center requires multiple families to gather every so often. With this version, for Eusocial Colonies, it would require multiple Queens, thought they could be sharing a massive hive. Wolf Dens might qualify for this immediately once the first rule was met.
C. The Social Center would require X members of a species to gather every so often. With this version, a Eusocial Colony might qualify for this immediately once the first rule was met.
What do you think?
4 Likes
aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
2
I guess these solutions should prevent eusocial species from immedietly skipping to society stage. Good job!
Seems pretty good. I feel like there might end up being a lot of edge cases that this doesn’t cover, because edge cases are kinda the whole reason why you’re here in the first place. It would be best to cover these edge cases when they appear; once the game progresses to the point where you can actually reach Awakening, we’ll see any flaws and be able to correct them. But this seems like a pretty good system.
That being said, here’s one edge case: Super-ravens. They can use rudimentary tools, such as sticks, to aid in construction of somewhat complex nests. There are many outer nests, in which most super-ravens live. A central, larger nest serves as a communal hatchery; socialisation centers around it due to its importance to the flock (as it contains all the eggs). Consequently, it’s also where mating attempts occur. This reinforces its importance.
The central hatch-nest, in this case, is a rudimentary Society Center, as it is built using basic tools. The super-ravens, however, cannot make complex tools owing to a lack of fine manipulators. Are the super-ravens in the Awakening stage? If so, are they stuck?
3 Likes
aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
4
Most likely, since without more complex tools entering society would become impossible. They’re pretty far into awakening, and that’s how far they’ll get with their current set of manipulatory limbs.
Deathwake
(i nuked zenzone and will never let him forget it)
5
I think awakening stage needs to include some evolution. Human barely evolved through our awakening stage, even if it started with homo erectus, we just merged with/killed off neanderthals, and that was about it. But entering awakening stage without fine manipulators sounds plausible enough I think you need at least infrequent opportunities to refine them enough to unlock the rest of the tech tree. Or to evolve throwing/aiming skills, which we use to this day in sports and for firearms.
2 Likes
aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
6
Perhaps you’d be allowed to make more changes or change faster if your species has no way of progressing?
1 Like
Deathwake
(i nuked zenzone and will never let him forget it)
7
Yeah, like you only get to enter the editor when you max out the tech tree? So humans would get to enter it once when we were blocked from building fires or good ranged weapons due to small brains and bad aim, and once more when we entered civ stage. Or maybe we only enter just once… unsure. But a less prepared species would get to enter a couple times.
1 Like
aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
8
You mean like to allow the species to eat new kinds of food provided by agriculture? Since I’m pretty sure that kind of mutations are still planned for the strategy stages, atleast as per the prototypes.
1 Like
Deathwake
(i nuked zenzone and will never let him forget it)
9
I’m not sure, I think it makes sense, you get to balance your digestive tract for the strategy stages, they you leave it alone and don’t have to evolve again in the game.
1 Like
aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
10
In the strategy prototypes it says that you’d be able to develop stuff like lactose tolerance, so I guess this indeed is planned to work that way.
So what are your opinions on the second rule options?
A: Requiring members of multiple families that sleep other places
B: Requiring members of multiple families
C: Requiring X number of your species
0voters
1 Like
aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
12
Option B seems to have the most sense. Althrough I guess C could also work if it scaled in such a way that you cannot attain such a large number of specimens of your species in awakening (even if you’re playing as a huge eusocial hive)…
Given the sheer numbers of an average Eusocial family, how big would they need to be for that?
1 Like
aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
16
I just realized that going along this would just end up back at option B, since if you can calculate how populous 10 families are (for instance), then it would just be easier to count by the families themselves, not the populations.
Through I guess the raw population option could still work if for whatever reason your species doesn’t really form “families” but instead some sort of “social units” containing random specimens.
What about having the number of families needed be based on the potential number of offspring they could each have? So like, a species in which an individual might have 2 or 3 children in its life time might need over a dozen families while a species that has dozens of offspring might only need three families.
Edit: For r type species, it should probably be based on how many reach adulthood. If a species has hundreds of offspring and only 2 or 3 reach adulthood, it could be treated like a K species that has 2 or 3 offspring with a high success rate.
2 Likes
aah31415
(The maker of SitF, Radiostrocity, The Lifenote and TGBing; The Second Ascended...; And just maybe a security warning come alive...?)
18
There would be a lower cap to this because you can’t have a town of three original lineages breeding with eachother and having little external input without it ending up in massive gene defects of the offspring.
Given the sheer numbers of an average Eusocial family, how big would they need to be for that?