Ideas for the Microbe Stage [Put your ideas in this thread]

Expanding on ‘more photosynthetic organelles which specialize in different wavelengths’, one obvious choice is microbial rhodopsin - which seem in simplified terms to be very basic pumps to generate ATP from the wavelength of light they best absorb (green-blue light, thus appearing purple). Simpler than photosynthesis (doesn’t fix carbon) and the source of our own monochromatic low-light vision. They also tend to coexist with photosynthetic species as they don’t directly compete for wavelengths of light and may benefit from compounds those produce.

The simplified form seems pretty similar in implementation to rusticyanin’s current implementation, using a different resource.

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Genetic simulation. This idea is probably dumb or said before, but hear me out. Each generation of your species has different parts in different coordinates of the system. They also (should) have different fundamental properties of each element of the system. Now, in real life, genetic material (GM) can grow, and can turn on and off, as well as mutate. Of course, the actual code to GM is a bit complex for the player, and it is probably better to simplify it all. Let us assume we have the four basis proteins still, but they do more specific things and are renamed. Let us name the four, as well as describe what they do:
Positionine affects the position of an element in the system. Scaline affects the size of something in the system. Masomine affects the mass of the element. Finally, growenine affects the change of all other types of nucleotides (kinda like how kal 1000 works in KSP breaking ground).

Selecting an element of the system (an organelle, the membrane, the segments and elements within the organelles, etc.) will allow you to access the gene editor that controls that specific element. This allow more overall complexity, but it doesn’t stop there. Remember what I mentioned about turning on and off genes? Well, after you delete a part, the genes don’t just leave, but rather turn off during point mutation or something. They probably will degrade or be recycled for good after many generations, but they can still be turned back on. This means old great grandpop john with his lovely lovely thermoplast can spread the power to you, or your brown eyes can turn back to your grandma’s blue eyes. This also makes to add a new challenge in the game if wanted: Unwanted mutations. Lets say when using the GM editor for the nucleus, it allows you to mess with the mitosis in some way (more developed cells, releasing toxin while splitting for safety, etc.). During the split, you can get an unwanted mutation, that you’d have to fix. Now, during the cell stage this would be pretty rare since the chance of a single cell out of maybe billions of others getting mutated is low. For multicellular and aware creatures it might be worse with having cancer, deformed offspring, and more. You’d then have to collect proteins to preserve your cell, maybe being possible when the behavior tab is added so your species can have it instinct to go out to get you stuff that can benefit you. IDK, this is a really rough idea. Maybe the GM editor can have a cool UI of an actual double helix spiral with all the chains. This concept can be added or subtract from, names can change, it might be too dumb to add in. Anyways, thanks for reading this.

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(Sorry if this is a Necropost or a hijack, I just have an idea)
What about a fog of war? Currently you can zoom-out to see more so why not have anything that your cell can not sense be unreadable? What I mean by this is that the cell is drifting along and the player zooms out, but instead of seeing the iron particle and the chunk of iron all they see is a grey particle with ??? as what it is. A way you can increase you ‘sensing range’ is by using communication agents to form a ‘pack’ of your cells or by evolving to detect water movement from other cells.

The most distant parts of the environment can just be blurred, or without the eyespots you can’t zoom so far away.

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The sides of the screen are already a little blurred. And eyespots wouldn’t really make sense as they’re made of a number of highly specialized cells. In real life, cells are oriented by chemical gradient. I’m not sure it’s doable in Thrive. I think the easiest solution would be to increase the zoom ratio as the cell grows. Or decreasing the blurriness as the cell grows. I’m not sure what’s better.

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Buckly, Dev forums:

Dark spots, sun spots: Instead of a day/night cycle, we could instead introduce locally varying light levels within patches. This could be as simple as patches of darkness or light in the environment that the player would need to avoid or seek; Or as complex as an ever changing gradient of light and shadow where the player would constantly seek out the brightest spots whilst avoiding the darkest. This feature could probably work better than the day/light cycle, however it could arguably make photosynthesis somewhat similar in gameplay to other features such as chemosynthesis.

The eyespots could detect light gradients within (did I use “within” right?) the patches.

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Link to that post if anyone wants to read the entire thing:

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Remember when everyone was fighting over player perception with different senses? Here is what I thought:
image image image

Concept #1 shows a cell with a sphere of strong sensory output, showing to the player what he is sensing. This is the chemoreceptive “smelling” being shown. I imagine by default, all cells start out with a protein that can sense chemicals both within, without, and within other cells. The radius and strength of the proteins depend on the amount, and gene modifications of them. The cell shown their only has one, yet has grown without adding anymore. Therefore, the visual radius is shown to be a lot smaller than the default full screen. There are also indicator markers showing where and about how much of a chemical is, while out of the visual sensory range. Although you may be to far away to strongly smell something, the smell may linger around for a while, so waiting a bit would be beneficial for more compound absorption and better tracking. As I said before, you can see the chemicals in other cells, better determining by “smell” if they are worth eating. This also leaves a hazard in which cells that are big enough to eat you, will just be tracked as big globs of compound that can be moving due to a current. You also wouldn’t see a background, or any actual models themselves, but just compounds and things that contain them. If a rock is in front of you that isn’t a compound listed in your olfactory senses, you won’t read it, and will just bump into it. Radioactive substances that were proposed before would be more of a danger!

Image #2 Shows photoreception, which is a bit of an upgrade since now you can see things for real. You can track light, objects you couldn’t before, basic radiation, fluid dynamics, other cells, and sizes of other cells. If you have more than one sense system, I’d believe you can choose to isolate them or overlap them. However, focusing them leads to better accuracy within that sense field. This adds strategy to what senses you should use, and also takes in mind atp usage for fuel consumptive systems. Anyways, the image shows the senses overlap, showing the semi colourful inner workings of other cells (and you). It also shows indicators of other chemicals although sight is being displaced and is not rendering the compounds as brightly, and the compounds look duller in colour, and have low opacity. Of course, pressure, density, temperature, and so on, will take a toll in any material’s (including your own) appearance.

Image #3, the final image, is basically a heat map shown with cells in the Ice Shelf biome. This is a good strategy for predation, but would distort other senses in the process, and the longer you have it isolated, the longer there will be an annoying after image of the last frame of the heat map slowly loosing opacity (since I think the heat would take time to dissipate from the organelle/organ, and would add a cool little feature). The thermoreceptive protein would have a max heat view threshold you would be able to customize slowly over time. More proteins increase the threshold range (as well as speed and radiation), and if that range is surpassed, it will only show null. The thing works by slowly turning on, collecting heat, and then averaging the heat in a radius, then taking the extreme heats, and slowly uncovering them. Of course, because of how heat works, especially for large creature builds, heat sticking to the system will be a problem if you have it on all the time, and will be better for only finding a target while you are still. Kinda like how snakes have heat pits that they don’t really use while moving.

Well, that’s mainly all I can think to add. Any questions, comments or ideas?

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As a suggestion to compensate cell walls’ mobility malus, evolving a gas vesicle could increase mobility.

Possible Variables: Gas type, Gas quantity, Pressure

EDIT: Woops, I just noticed it was in the features backlog.

Why would Gas vesicles make the cell more mobile? Sure, they’re light, but no matter how light something is you can’t cause a net decrease in the cell’s weight.
In the article you linked it says they’re used to move vertically by controlling how well the cell floats, which makes sense except Thrive is in 2D. You can’t move up or down.
Maybe they could make it easier to migrate to patches on different heights?

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The thrive format is hopefully going to switch to 3D assets and environments, while having a top-down view, but we can still integrate movement on the vertical axis even in 2D currently. One feature I was looking for was adding multiple layers which the player can swim up and down to, adding a vertical axis. If you are near the surface of a body of water, you may be able to catch a ride on evaporating water droplets, enabling farther control and options on migration.

I’ve said this a ton of times, but I’ll say it again: the microbe stage is rendered in 3D. The organelles are 3D models, the membrane is a procedurally generated model, but it is flat.

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I keep forgetting to mention and integrate that the organelles are 3D in my messages. But the membrane and environment are still 2D assets. I would like to know whether you still plan to tackle this or not for sure.

Improving the membrane as well as the microbe backgrounds has been on the agenda forever but no one has wanted to tackle them.

Do you ever think about recycling code or borrowing other’s free-source code? There are lots of ray marching program snippets out there and procedural environment generators. Would you look to these if they cut programming time and effort down, as long as you don’t get too reliant on other sources?

If the licensing is good, they can be considered, but there is still a lot of effort needed to hook up the code to actually do something. Libraries are better in this sense as they usually have documentation and examples on how to use it, as well as configuration options for customizing, which is not (probably) usually the case with random code snippets.
I think that the effort to fit in some random code in Thrive in many cases is higher than writing code from scratch based on an algorithm description.
If the code to include isn’t cleaned up for thrive coding standards, I’ll complain about that.

Overall I think trying to pull in code from other sources is not as easy as non-programmers think. Okay, something like snippet for downloading a file or some other general thing could be easily re-used. But if you have like a prototype ray marching piece of code, making it work nicely in the context of Thrive with all the existing code and hooking it up is a lot of work.

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This would be the genetic pattern of a eukaryotic cell or an archae. Each gene would code a protein used either to upgrade an organelle or to add a new function to the cell.
Introns would protect the cell from harmful mutations should they hit the introns. The more introns there are, the higher is the probability of protection against mutations.
The promoter would allow the player to turn off a gene so that they can turn on another one. Imagine that there is a cap of three upgrades for the mitochondrion. Three upgrades are already in place (labelled A, B and C). To replace C with a protein labelled D, the player should turn off C and turn on D.
EDIT: As a sidenote, the intron probability shield can’t go to 100% since that would mean the gene doesn’t code any protein.
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Genetic Exchanging/Sexual Reproduction

The evolution of sexual reproduction is of far greater importance than some people may believe at first. It is not too far-fetched to make the assertion that the evolution of sexual reproduction is directly responsible for the rapid rate of evolution in the past roughly 1-2 billion years of eukaryotic existence primarily due to life’s new capacity to shuffle genetic information onto the next generation which tends to result in greater variation in offspring. and i would very much not like for it or many other similar abilities such as Bacterial Conjugation, Transformation, and Transduction to be relegated to essentially a passive boost in the amount of MP you can play with in the microbe editor rather than having atleast some minor role in active gameplay.

first of all i want to start with the simpler stuff; these are some simple proposals on how the 3 known methods of gene exchange of bacteria/archaea could work

1.) bacterial conjugation allow for the exchange of genetic information through cell to cell contact. it would make sense if making contact with another member of your species would grant you a temporary minor boost to MP to use in the editor. this would probably make people want to conjugate alot to get as much mp as possible so i suggest implementing a decline in mp boost from repeated conjugation in a generation. like the first time you conjugate you get +10 Mp the next time you get +6, the next you get +3 and the final time you get +1 MP. and then once you divide the next conjugation results in +10 MP. maybe conjugation also requires some energy to be spent

2.) transformation would probably be easily implemented. All that would need to be implemented is free floating genetic material that your cell can engulf to add additional mp bonus. or unlock certain organelles or make certain proteins cheaper to mutate, primarily because in the vents with alot of hydrogen sulfide metabolising cells. engulfing some foreign dna would probably make it easier for your cell to evolve hydrogen sulfide metabolising proteins/enzymes because it probably would have originated from a hydrogen sulfide metabolising cell.

3.) then there is transduction which i am very uncertain about seeing as there’s no real consensus on how viruses will work.


Sexual reproduction which is far more complicated than any of the other previously mentioned methods of gene transfer. (And i’m definetely not knowledgeable enough on the subject on how sex evolved to really say anything on how it would potentially develop/mutate in the game.) Will likely be very important when it comes to life cycles in cells (which has many implication for the multicellular stage due to it having a direct role in cell differentiation). we can look at some real life examples of sexual reproduction in unicellular organisms such as zygotic meiosis, gametic meiosis, and sporic meiosis. and use those as references as to how it could possibly effect gameplay.

using the real life examples described above. We can infer that after the evolution of sexual reproduction the player will most likely be able to specialize into unique types of sexual reproduction. For example the player could evolve something analogous to zygotic meiosis and have their cell’s life cycle predominately be in a haploid state. or evolve something analogous to gametic meiosis where the species life cycle is predominately in a diploid state like in animals. or even go for something much more conveluted like sporic meosis. Honestly the possibilities are quite vast when it comes to how sexual reproduction can specialize.

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Diagrams of all 3 aformentioned methods of sexual reproduction going from zygotic meiosis, gametic meosis, to sporic meosis.

you can make the general statement that they would all give you more MP to use, but then what else? Many protists on earth only sexually reproduce when under stress. and so maybe the ratio of sexual reproduction to asexual reproduction can be tweaked in the behavior tab; greatly affecting the auto evolution of your species. also maybe undergoing sexual reproduction doesn’t increase your population as much as binary fission/mitosis but gives you much more mp to use

theres also the possibility that once you evolve sexual reproduction it unlocks the possibility to evolve life cycles/stages in which the morphology/physiology of your species changes. these stages could be linear with your cell going from stage A to B to C . . .and then reproducing sexually and starting the cycle again. or Dynamic with your species being able to transform into other stages in response to an external stimuli (or just at the players whim)


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Spending MP on eukaryotic organelles doesn’t always make sense because they generally come from the creation of a new membrane inside the membrane enclosure.
I think that membrane-bound organelles could have originated from an error in membrane regeneration. A cell needed to regenerate its membrane, but a part of it might have split off the main membrane enclosure making it a membrane within a cell. It might have accidentally trapped the DNA, which made it a nucleus.
Maybe we could reimplement old compounds such as proteins, amino acids, fatty acids and others to regenerate HP or buy membrane-bound organelles.
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