Lets figure out Thrive 0.4.0 guys

I mainly stuck to the prokaryotic structures but opted to put in 6 chloroplasts and two mitochondria towards the 12th mitosis event. I’m still going and am in the 22nd or 23rd Generation right now. I will update when I get back, my game seems to be running fine when I just leave it so I’m hoping auto-evo “catches up” to my own evo. Almost forgot about the two vacuoles, I tested them out because I thought I remembered reading somewhere that they make your collection of clouds different. Next Time I do a run I’ll take photos after each mitosis in order to get a more accurate representation.

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No evolution build

Category: Start build
Expectations: I expected that it would be hard, but still playable. Other cells should be bigger and faster, but I thought this would get a 5 or 6 on my gradelist

Evolutions:
1st - none
image

Review:
Ok, before I begin the review, let me talk about the game itself. First time I launched the game, it failed to load all UI components, so I skipped the start menu and, in game, had no idea how good (or bad) I’m doing. Sorry, I don’t have the log because I understood that something is wrong only after several minutes of playing the game. The second time I tried, I played until I reached the evolution and haven’t noticed it. ( Sidenote: a tutorial would be nice ). So I kept swimming for, like, five minutes until it occured to me that my cell isn’t growing anymore. I pressed the editor button and it exited the game. Log was not helpful, it showed zero errors.

Well, to the actual review we go… THE GAME IS COMPLETELY BROKEN. It was painfully easy, I mean, there is no point in balancing organelles or something else. I had literally zero trouble. You just need to find ONE ammonia cloud and ONE phosphates cloud - and you are already ready to evolve. I mean, my average run ends in 15 seconds. Granted, I’m playing safe, but it is just ridiculous.
I would give this build 9/10 on a broken scale. I will continue to play the game without evolving and I don’t know what to expect anymore.

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Great job, liked your review. I am actually glad someone is willing to help me in my quest.
I have one request for you though - can you, please, describe your next run in more detail. I tried to give an example with my no-evo run. Having some formality will help to sum up the information we collect

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You know what, I’m actually not going to describe this properly, because that’s a no-evo build and you can see it for yourselves:


That’s me, gen 15, no evolutions.
IT TOOK ME 15 MINUTES TO BEAT THIS GAME. I’m a speedrunna, heh.

Btw, 9/10, most broken thing I saw in years. I only had some trouble because I forgot that you keep ATP from your previous runs

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Yeah no problem i’ll try to make it more informational and follow your format, after seeing yours its a lot easier to get the feel of how it should be. I also should have read the top posts before posting mine again because I completely forgot about the grading system.

I have some comments on your review. The game can be incredibly easy and I do hope there is a way to add in difficulty. On the fact that your cell is just the first stage means it is even more easy… e.i. broken because you arn’t really expected to stay that way for long, it takes a lot less compounds for a lot less… I mean zero organelles. Auto Evo should occur at 10 minutes into the game ( I wish this was on a slider for easily changing it for those not great with programming or building the game) which should make it a bit harder although not by much. Usually you can out compete anything if you know what you are doing.

Well this might not be useful anymore since I just see that you finished your run…

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Category: Early Game
Expectations: Similar to a pitiful run but with better ATP production and faster glucose usage making the search for glucose more important than before.
Name: Spearhead
Scientific Name: Hastae calvitium
Evolutions:
I am not adding the initial cell as an evolution since it is a common ancestor for every player cell in 0.4.0’s existence
1st: I added cytoplasm to the front and back, front had 6 while the back had 4 added. Movement seemed much like the CA ( common ancestor) movement expect side to side was slower. Most likely do to the flatter sides having higher resistance.
Screenshot%20(1)

2nd:
I kept on adding cytoplasm to the front and back taking them as far as you can in the current editor, equaling 10 to the front and 7 to the back. Movement was very similar to Evolution 1.



(going into the 3rd in case you wonder why the editor says 3rd, no changes were made before the photo however.)

As mentioned for the CA ( common ancestor ) it was very easy gameplay due to the lack of orgenalles needed to replicate meaning I did not have to go for Phosphates or Ammonia heavily, albeit more than the CA because of the added Cytoplasm. Glucose was a very small problem when trying this early build as compound frequency does not change in between biomes quite yet, making my “Abyss” biome no harder than any other ( I look forward to the biome changes that will be done for future versions, I’ll keep checking the dev forums for this topic). I speculate with Evolution 3 when I add a flagellum glucose collection will become a larger problem and I will have to be more careful with the directions I go. Eating Bacteria as I did for both these Evos will most likely help me the most in this coming stage

Grade: 9/10 Mistakes made with this Species are not very detrimental mainly do to the fact of Glucose abundance ( I’m guessing will be fixed in a biome update )

Category: Early Game

Expectations: I speculate with Evolution 3 when I add a flagellum glucose collection will become a larger problem and I will have to be more careful with the directions I go. Eating Bacteria as I did for both these Evos will most likely help me the most in this coming stage

Name: Swimming Spearhead
Scientific Name: Hastae natantes
Evolutions:
3rd ( A speciation of Hastae calvitium )
This Species has the added benefit of a flagellum to propel itself through the world. From where the editor placed me this was an easy run, with ammonia, phosphates, and glucose in close proximity the time to mitosis was under a minute; at least it felt that way I wasn’t actually keeping track might have been a minute and a half.

The only difference with Hastea natantes is that the bottom most cytoplasm has developed into a flagellum ( denoted by a red F ). I believe this is drastic enough of a change to place it in its own species.

For the Minute or so I played as Hastea natantes I noticed there weren’t very many other cells in the region, this most likely what allowed me to reach mitosis so quickly. Hopefully with the addition of more flagella on Hastea natantes gameplay will become a bit more challenging, requiring heavy amounts of ATP to keep up with such a torpedo.

Grade: 9/10, I will no longer complain about compound abundance to keep from being redundant but the flagellum was completely cared fore by the cytoplasm; creating 7 ATP to power the flagellum while moving.

Category: Midgame

Expectations: Evolution 4 got an addition of two flagellum to the bottom (indicated by red F’s again) I wasn’t sure on how my cell’s length would change when converting cytoplasm to flagella so I opted to put them on the sides instead.

Name: Swimming Spearhead
Scientific Name: Hastae natantes

Evolutions:
4th ( A speciation of Hastae calvitium )
This Species has the added benefit of flagella to propel itself through the world. I had a little bit more tactic to the game in this evolution of Hastea natantes. I did not acquire large amounts of glucose before splitting so I was running with 7-10 out of the editor, this was actually a problem as the ATP quickly decreased to feed the energy need of the three flagellum.

Here is Hastea natantes in the wild.


I would suggest maybe making how the cells create their walls to be “thinner” at least in this case it makes it hard to tell where my cell actually is because 50% of the image isn’t actually the physical cell.

Grade: 8/10, I am bringing it down from 9 for one reason only, the amount of ATP needed to propel yourself with with three flagella is 21 ATP per second if I recollect correctly. Cytoplasmic respiration can keep fairly well up until the obvious of having no glucose, then it is a race against time to find glucose. I lied about not saying anything about abundancy I know this is a feature being worked on and I am extremely exited for it to come; I also believe it will fix a lot of the “balance” issues.

Category: Midgame

Expectations: Evolution 5 got an addition of two flagellum to the bottom (indicated by red F’s again) I’m expecting that I will need to hunt more or search for glucose clouds in order to keep Thriving…

Name: Swimming Spearhead
Scientific Name: Hastae natantes

Evolutions:
5th ( A speciation of Hastae calvitium )
The five added Flagellum are noted in red F’s.

As you can notice there is a big change in the compounds that are stored from this image and then to the next.
This is due to the heavy need for glucose. This image (the one below the text) shows what I had almost immediately out of the editor. There was a lot, I mean a lot a lot of ATP used. It almost wasn’t beneficial to get those two extra flagella.

I decided to go around a bit more and obtain extra glucose for my next evolution but I realize now that I might have collected enough to immediately go to the editor next time… whoops. Movement was also much faster but I was depleting more as well, trade offs I guess.

Grade: 7/10, I knocked this one own to 7/10 because I felt I needed to make this more for the general populace otherwise I would debate about putting it as 8/10. The ATP consumption can be a major problem and I know in future updates this species will most likely not be able to survive an “Abyss” ( still can’t remember the actual name; scientific name ) biome because of its reliance on ATP clouds. I did consume some bacteria but not a lot because the time and ATP it took to engulf them was not profitable.

Category: Midgame

Expectations: I expect that the ATP drain might be too much for this species evolution to live and I will most likely have to get a prokaryotic structure to keep up with the ATP consumption.

Name: Swimming Spearhead
Scientific Name: Hastae natantes

Evolutions:
6th As always flagella are noted by those red F’s

I died pretty quickly from this evolution but I stupidly ran into some Oxytoxy floating in the waters, I didn’t quite seem them in time. I seem to have run into a bug where my health isn’t displayed correctly cause I died without seeing go down, it was also at 100 while I looked at my cloud corpse. Sorry for fluctuating with where I describe my runs but this one was really interesting. My ATP consumption was higher than I could process, although I haven’t done the math yet to see if this is true., but it was very high. Glucose became a big problem even more so then before because of the Flagella’s thirst for speed.

Grade: 7/10, if I had played more I might have said this was a 6/10, the grading system has some problems with numbers below 6 in my opinion because they all represent a very hard difficulty just worded differently; 1 and 2 are the same just one is meme worthy (I’ll come up with some in a new post). I shouldn’t be a muckraker but I don’t have any good ideas for changing them. I place it at a 6/10 because the ATP consumption is seemingly too fast for the Cytoplasm to keep up. I think it is still possible to survive with this, I still got the editor but mainly do to my fears of completely dying and the excess compounds from the prior generation.

Category: Midgame

Expectations: I expect that the extra storage space and the glucose conversion speed to be relatively higher and be able to cope with the flagellum. The Chromatophores should help tremendously with the issue of glucose collection as Hastae ardea will now be able to produce it

Name: Soaring Spear
Scientific Name: Hastae ardea

Evolutions:
7th ( a speciation of Hastae natantes )
This evolution acquired some needed structures. Two Chromatophares and Two Metabolosomes were added to Hastae ardea and are dented by the light green C and the orange M. I plan on making Chlorophyll be a darker green and Mitochondria will be a red. These added structures make this a candidate for speciation, deviating far enough away from Hastae natantes.


As you can see I hit the “Banana” biome, so I will be restarting and going through the same steps as I did before. I will make this an opportunity to add information on the earlier evolutions. Don’t worry the Banana biome is a known bug and is going to be fixed, you can play though it but it can make it more difficult and will skew the grading system in my opinion. Also I got the Banana Biome when I died and not when I went to the editor so I did play a couple seconds of the last evolution in it, but not enough to make it gameplay worthy.

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Can you grade the build to give a numerical representation?

OldSchool build

Category: Start build
Evolutions:
1st - 1 flagella, 7 cytoplasm
That’s me:
image
Expectations: Since the last run was kinda broken, I expected this run to be much harder, because, while I increased in size, my idle ATP consumption went from 3 to 11. On the other side, I became much larger, so I guess I’m the hunter now.

Review: Aaaand… that was kinda the same thing. Size and max resources capacity went up, but I still managed to get to the next evolution even before my cell grew even once (in, like, 30 seconds). Therefore, this build is just as broken and it feels just as no-evo run. And I just dont get why.
Also, I was, like, two times as big, but my max hp was still 100
Can somebody please explain to me how cell growth and reproduction works now? And how max hp is calculated.

Grade: 9/10 broken, 0/10 unique.

So to duplicate an organelle you need 1 phosphate and 1 ammonia, and nucleus takes a bit more. HP is 100 for all cells now for balance. What we need to do is make the cost for osmoregulation much larger, if you ahve any balance suggestions we are willing to listen :slight_smile: /

Might I suggest trying builds that provide a new (if somewhat challenging) way to play, eg the hummingbird build, which is harder but more fun and challenging.

I dont want to give suggestions right now, I want to collect some more data and think about the results. Now I can only say that the game certainly doesn’t feel right atm. Maybe I will come up with something by Monday.

About challenging builds - that is exactly the thing I’m talking about. You are supposed to evolve in order to make the game easier, not more challenging. And I feel like everything needed for that is already there, but core gameplay needs some love

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Its fun though right?

Well, different people have different expectations from the game. Some a more creative and they like the opportunity to create their own organisms and play around with them.
I, on the other hand, wanted to dive in the concept of evolution and natural selection. Right now the game is not fun for me personally. I think I’m in minority, but I wanted a balanced evolution simulator, and v0.4.0 is not there yet

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With all due respect, we never claimed this version was in any way balanced, just that there were more features that made it more fun. We understand your frustration and will definitely be looking at balance moving forward.

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I am not frustrated at all, I didnt expected the game to be balanced. This is the reason this thread exists at all. I think it is a community job to balance the game, devs dont have time and resources to do this.

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I agree its hard to balance everything with only a few tests run by devs also we want them creating more for us to play so I feel as though I’m helping off load work unto us so they can work more on bug fixes and new features ( I have to note that my Thrive has been running for over 2 hours with no problems, I think this is a great updated version) Also I gave Hastae Calvitium its rating

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is time to play!
lets try this.

how do you start 4.0?

Thanks, playing the game and giving feedback is really helpful. I agree the game isn’t challenging at the moment and almost all cell builds are viable (so there’s not much reason to evolve) and there is not a huge amount of danger from other cells. The game is in quite a relaxing creative mode atm.

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I cant play the game so i dont have a build