The Problem that is Organelle Gluttony

(ፕቿክፕልርረቿ ረዐዪዕ) #1

In the current game and what I’v seen of 0.4.0 from videos it would seem that organelle gluttony is still a problem, where players add as many organelles as they can and end up having cells with 2-5 of every organelle available making game play always the same as you always end up with a giant venomous generalist cell that does everything. I believe the problem stems from both the player and how the editor work, the problem is that people are greedy and every time a player enters the editor they want to add something to their cell (or spend all of their MP) resulting in giant cells that are always the same. A player isnt going to work their butts off to get to the editor just to leave their cell exactly the same as when they entered so even if they have “the perfect cell” they will still be asking them selves what else can they add. I think a good way of countering organelle gluttony is to

  1. Advantage in disadvantage: give organelles disadvantages like a chloroplast being heavy so it slows down your cell. But make them meaningful disadvantages that force the player to specialize their cell so a predator cell wouldn’t want chloroplasts as its pay off isn’t worth the debuff, while a slow moving scavenger might want it as long as there aren’t meany predators.

  2. MP Dump: Give the player something to throw MP at so they dont feel like they reproduced for nothing. so they have something to work for and throw spare change at when they dont really need to add anything to their cell but feel they might as well seeing they have extra MP. This could be anything from unlocking new organelles to improving the ones they already have. (this could also work as a progress bar so it would take multiple reproductions to unlock so they have to slowly work for it)

  3. Pace Yourself: This one ties in with the last one but you need a way of pacing the players evaluation like making them unlock organelles ether by grinding for them by throwing EP at it or by finding it in the wild like what spore did.

I know most of this is planned for the future but I feel now is the time to start working on them and maybe implement them for 0.5.0 and have that update about cells specialization, so we can finally start seeing real ecosystems with different types of predators, prey and plants.

(Untrustedlife) #2

Weve been working on this i’d say it is improved in 0.4.0, but its still not totally there.

You can actively specialize your cell now, but the player can still do the gluttony thing. I agree it needs more work but i think 0.4.0 brings us closer to solving the problem.

I like your ideas.

(Untrustedlife) #3

One other way to work on this i think would be to make some organelles ,make it take longer for you to reproduce, right now all organelles take 1 ammonia and 1 phosphate to be duplicated before you enter the cell editor, but some could have double or even triple the amount, which would discourage getting the organelle when you don’t need it for your “playstyle”.

(tjwhale) #4

I think this is an astute observation, organelle guttony is a problem at the moment. I think part of it is because we haven’t separated out the biomes yet so chloroplasts and chemoplasts both work whereas there aren’t any real biomes where they both should.

I also really like the idea of some kind of MP dump, I did notice in the gameplay videos that people always seem to add a couple of cytoplasm just to use up their MP which is not what we want. Also I agree it feels weird to leave the editor without making any changes. However I don’t like straight upgrades that much, I also worry that MP to unlock might make the game slower and grindier as you go to the editor just to put MP into an unlock.

It would be nice if there were some positive reason to keep MP rather than instinctively making changes.

On the main point I think the goal is to have each editor session feel like you’ve got problems that need solving. So maybe the climate has changed and you need to adapt to that, or maybe a new predator has emerged and you need to try to counter them, or your prey got faster to avoid you etc.

Another part of it is how abundant clouds are, it means you don’t need to struggle to survive very much and so ridiculous cells can survive easily. When resources are more rare you’ll need to carry only what you can afford I hope.

(ፕቿክፕልርረቿ ረዐዪዕ) #5

Anyone else have some ideas on how we can fix this problem I want to start a conversation on this

(He who abuses the search function) #6

Well 0.4.0 is coming out in a couple days, so I feel like there gameplay will change a lot anyway


What if you do a scaling resource consumption by size, as well as resrouce absorption by surface area?
These are both problems cells have trouble with. The bigger the cell, the harder it is for the nucleus to commumicate with its organelles, the harder it is for it to get rid of waste, and the more nutrients it needs. As well, due to its relatively large surface area to volume, the cell cannot absorb enough minerals to allow it to use. Basically it would be like if you were the size of an elephant, but your mouth was physically never able to get bigger then a mouses mouth.
Then there would be ways to get around that. For example amoebas are able to send out portions of itself, increasing its total surface area. More complex cells have pumps and such to force nutrients in, instead of relying diffusion. This could be a late game way to have a point sink, dumping MP into various pumps thah consume a minor amount of ATP, but allowing you to grow to be bigger and gave more complex organelles.