propaganda time
Don’t forget kids! PC is superior!
Something else that can be done to slow us down a little is to make the people demand stuffs. You can’t colonize Mars in the 15th century if your people are demanding you to build toilets everywhere:D
3 Likes
I think that the lack of accuracy in our “simulation” is due to the lack of rules. I also think that future games would be more accurate if they would rely on facts, equations, etc. For instance, we could use the population ecology notions for the first part of the first chapter.
I almost forgot to mention that the following equation is to calculate a population size of a next generation.
N_{t+1} = N_t + B_t + I_t - D_t - E_t
| Term | Definition |
|---|---|
| N_{t+1} | Population size after generation t. |
| N_t | Population size during generation t. |
| B_t | Sum (\Sigma) of births between generations t and t+1 (raw birth rate). |
| I_t | Sum (\Sigma) of immigrants between generations t and t+1 (raw immigration rate). |
| D_t | Sum (\Sigma) of deaths between generations t and t+1 (raw death rate). |
| E_t | Sum (\Sigma) of emigrants between generations t and t+1 (raw emigration rate). |
The bonus/malus of players would be applied to their respective equations.
2 Likes
*double post
I disagree with how the demands system works as it only takes your archetype into account. I think that it should take different “schools” of thought, political motives or else instead.
However, I really like the milestone concept. It would avoid reaching the steam engine in the 5th century. But we have to make a tech tree first. We could get an inspiration from this game:
We could take its tech tree (in civilization part) and elaborate it.
i said that it could be based on your actions or archetype but it could be based on any other things but really those 2 things are the main way to differentiate civs right now so stuff like political motive does not really exist yet
I don’t know how milestone prevent steam engine in the 5th century as milestone are more of a way to slow down the player with alternate choices to go for and also it was to give the GM a way to guide the players toward a goal or other things that the gm want the player to do
also i dislike the idea of a tech tree, i think having a tech tree is a bit limiting and i like the more organic tech tree we have in game
But this is why we reached the Industrial Revolution too fast.
What tech tree? The improvised tech tree? Improvising is not always a good option, especially in this forum game. Maybe a tech tree shouldn’t be implemented when we come back, but it’d be a good idea for future games. To reduce limitations, we could allow the players to add theoretical objects (e.g. alternate inventions) to the tech tree if they make sense.
Also, I feel like it’d be good to discuss the diffusion idea from this discussion (first post, not mine; for future games only).
I agree, next game, if there is one, should have a tech tree. The thing is, making a tech tree for a game like this is a large amount of work. If you want to make it, go ahead, but i doubt every player would want to contribute.
1 Like
i was searching a lot of things to make a tech tree, but then my pc died. I may continue with it
1 Like
I didn’t expect my game to get this big
3 Likes
Wait. Are you CalvintheThriveling? What happened to your old account?
2 Likes
I kept forgetting my passwords…
I could finally settle on this account
3 Likes
I don’t think the lack of a tech tree was the reason why we reach the industrial revolution fast as having a rigid tech tree does not solve that problem
i am actually going to create a post about problems with the current game and i think the problem from the speed is mostly come from lack of challenge including lack of resource management and the quick early growth from the village system
while having a tech tree with many nodes will help to slow it down, it does not address the main issue with our rapid growth
I like the current system of tech right now but i do think maybe having a tech guide will be useful as a compromise for a tech tree
also thank you for creating the game, also this is not even all of the post, we have some private one too, so actually it’s bigger than this
3 Likes
I have thought about it a bit and I’ve come to the conclusion that I want to eliminate bonuses, or at least reduce them a lot further. This is first and foremost a forum game ruled by the dice, but when you roll a d20 with a 16+ bonus, getting a 20 doesn’t feel as special. So I think I will reduce bonuses by removing bonuses from a lot of tech, and reducing those of others, so that you can get a max of maybe +5, so that failure is always a possibility.
I also plan on revamping the combat system by introducing different stats to keep account of which can influence the diceroll, such as weapon type and formations, to encourage diverse combat stances and break the current meta of just bringing a huge load of archers.
4 Likes
I do think it a good idea to limit the bonuses as it is a bit ridiculous but i think that a limit to +10 is better as that is the minimum guaranteed success but i think getting to that point should be hard and take work to maintain
i think you should start to remove bonuses from older tech
3 Likes
There wasn’t much resemblance 
2 Likes
One week, two weeks, what’s the difference right? I’m sorry in advance if I forgot to include anything, I decided to publish this barebones and unfinished prototype because I figured it was better than nothing. Also, sorry if I pinged anyone who quit the game or forgot to ping someone who is playing, it’s been a while haha
Story
The Empire of Thomas the Tank Engine keeps growing and threatens the peace between the Teletubbies Treaty, which may end in bloodshed.
Volume 2: Divusion, the Cultural Odyssey
Round 108 - 1200 CE
Thomas’ Empire
Thomas the Tank Engine
Resources
Lumber: Rare
Sand: Uncommon
Stone: Common
Fertile Land: None
Clean Water: Bountiful
Copper: Rare
Tin: Bountiful
Iron: Uncommon
Gold: None
Precious Metals: Rare
Heavy Metals: None
Petroleum and/or Natural Gases: Uncommon
Spices: None
Food: (Wildlife and Plantlife): Bountiful
Silk: Common
Leader: Thomas IV
Actions: Trade slaves with the Harold Kingdom, Research concrete, Conquer the Red Kingdom
Result: (Bonuses are not taken into account to save time) 12/20, 4/20, 18/20
You strike a deal with Harold Kingdom and start exporting war prisoners and criminals as slaves to them. It’s quite lucrative, and increases your economy from Fair to Great.
Your people fail to research concrete. Many workers perish in a few mines from landslides and other accidents.
You conquer and fully integrate the Red Kingdom into your empire. You will gain these benefits next turn.
Cities: 15
Region: South Africa, Africa
Stability: Sturdy 4
Time Bank: 0
Population: 30000
Jobs: Fisherman 30%, Farmer 10%, Herder 5%, Builder 10%, Researcher 10%, Soldier 30%, Jobless 5%
Status: Civilization, QUEST: Trouble in Tainick (Eliminate the Bandits) [3 turns]
Type: Warmonger (You take things by force, and excel in offense, but this usually deters most allies, granting +3 to combat rolls and -1 relations to non war-like nations)
Culture: Fishing, Warrior, Disciplined, Agrarian, Very Big, Backwards, Unhygienic, Religion (Pantheon, War-like, Sacrifices)
Regions
Utomaspia
Population: 15000
Jobs: Farmer 10%, Builder 20%, Herder 20%, Soldier 20%, Jobless 30%
Cities: Hunt [Region Capital][4000], Renas [Civ Capital][6000], Tainick [2000], Forlet [1500], Sars [500], Drammon [1000]
Happiness: Unhappy
Needs: Jobs, Sewage System, Security (Bandits), Better Government (Unpopular Decisions)
Other regions you get the point
Paxa Colony
Resources
Lumber: Rare
Sand: Rare
Stone: Common
Fertile Land: None
Clean Water: Common
Copper: Common
Tin: Rare
Iron: Rare
Coal: Rare
Gold: None
Precious Metals: None
Heavy Metals: None
Petroleum and/or Natural Gases: Rare
Spices: None
Food: (Wildlife and Plantlife): Plentiful
Silk: None
Location: Falkland Islands
Population: 3000
Jobs: Fisherman 50%, Builder 20%, Herder 20%, Researcher 10%
Cities: Minton [3000]
Happiness: Happy
Needs: Better Shelter, Winter Coats
Culture: Fishing, Warrior, Disciplined, Agrarian, Very Big, Backwards, Unhygienic, Religion (Pantheon, War-like, Sacrifices)
Politics
Government: Dictatorial Autocracy
Policies: Martial Law, Taxes, Militia Act, Criminal Code
Economy
Status: Great
Import: Iron, Silk, Spices, Lumber
Export: Fish, Food (Goats, Oranges, Grapes), Slaves
Military
Army: 9000 Units
Type: Infantry (Spearmen, Swordsmen, Lancemen) [4000], Ranged (Musketeer) [2000], Cavalry (Horsemen) [1000], Heavy Infantry (Shielded Swordsmen, Heavy Armoured Soldiers) [1000], Heavy Ranged (Armoured Crossbowmen) [500], Naval (Catapult Warship) [1000 (100)]
Weapons: Iron Melee (Battle Ax, Longsword, Pike), Basic Gun (Musket), Iron Armour (Scale), Copper Shield, Cannon
Tactics: Turtle Formation (Defense), Shield Wall (Defense), Spearman Rush (Attack)
Infrastructure: Reinforced Stone Walls, Training Academy, Castle
Freeman State
Another State of the federation, I won’t write it out but you get the point.
Technology
I don’t feel like writing the tech, but it didn’t change so you’re not missing out on anything
Relations
Harold Kingdom
Reputation: Amicable
Trade Route: Iron, Silk (In), Slaves, Oranges, Fish (Out)
History: War Enemy, War Ally, Trade Route
Joland
Reputation: Cold
History: Discovery
Potential Quest: Find a Cure for the Joland-strand of Tuberculosis
Milestones
Available: Bust a Plague, Win 3 Wars, Reach Industrial Status, [Secret]
Complete: Be the First Civ to reach a Civilisation status (By Thomas the Tank Engine)
CHANGELOG
Action Progression
1: Default
2: 2 villages
3: 6 villages
4: Level 2 Education
5: Strong Economy
6: 2 Nations
Education level means that you have at least the required level of every major science domain, so Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, Linguistics, Biology and Astronomy
Action Tree
There is a hidden tech tree, which is developed and tweaked in real-time. One can ask for the prerequisites of an action and will be notified of such prerequisites if one attempts to perform an action while lacking them. The tech tree is largely improvised and adapts as time passes.
Action Rolls
If a roll is repeatedly failed (2+), one will get a +1 x number of turns since the threshold, so if someone failed a roll 3 times, on their fourth roll, they would get their roll +2. This is maintained until the action succeeds or the player decides to switch to a new action, which will reset the fail timer.
Bonuses
Bonuses are now temporary, lasting anywhere from 2 to 5 turns, depending on the nature of the bonus, with the exception of combat bonuses which will be explained more in depth in the combat overhaul below. This is to make sure players always have a chance to fail rolls and to make rolling twenties actually meaningful again, which I think will help slow down the development of the game.
Resources and Economy
Resources are now finite and vary from region to region, which I think will add incentive for trade and war. The way they work is that everyone gets a set level of resources, which go by None>Rare>Uncommon>Common>Plentiful>Bountiful, where the further the level is on the right, the more actions revolving this resource you can perform before you run out. Some actions will require more resources than others, so it’s still pretty open and up to the gamemaster to judge when a resource will go up or down a rank. At first, players will use resources in pretty limited ways, but they can spend actions to extract resources more efficiently, increasing potential uses. This is because, for example, iron won’t be available at the surface in large amounts, so mines will have to be created to harvest iron to its full capacity. Of course, to increase the amount of resources of a type, one can trade for them, expand into new territories containing those resources, or pillage them from their neighbours. One thing that would be interesting is if the real resource amount was hidden, if it wasn’t fully accessible already, so instead of saying Bountiful Iron, you would have Rare Iron, because most of it is underground.
Economy will be calculated by the amount of resources you possess, but that may change if someone decides to invent a new economic way of thinking (wink wink), but it goes Poor>Weak>Fair>Great>Strong>Excellent, with the higher the economy, the more power you have, translated with an extra roll after reaching a Strong economy. Of course, if your economy reaches Weak or lower, you lose a roll, and happiness and stability decrease, which can quickly snowball into revolution, so watch out! I feel like Economy is still sort of shallow, so please help me out on that one.
Culture
Right now culture doesn’t serve much purpose other than establishing starting relations, but now, cultures will define your archetype, so if you want to change your archetype, you’ll need to change your culture to reflect the archetype you want. Also, if you’re assimilated into a new nation, the closer your culture is, the less likely your people will revolt, which is another thing I’ll get into. Culture points might also make certain rolls easier or even passively develop rolls on their own as a bonus. The more culture points one has, the higher the chance of having tech developed on its own.
Happiness and Crime
Population happiness was way too easy to achieve and was ultimately meaningless, but not anymore. More factors will increase and decrease happiness, such as the wants and needs of the population, like food and shelter, and eventually, when society progresses to include classes, different classes of people will have different happiness scales, which will make finding a balance to satisfy everyone more difficult. Some actions, if they’re out of character for your culture or archetype, such as engaging in hostilities or researching war technology as a peaceful nation, will reduce happiness, which in turn decreases stability and can even add a malus to those rolls. Also, as happiness decreases, you’ll get protests, represented by maluses to rolls in general, and splinter factions can even emerge and start guerrilla warfare, or even stage a coup, which could be a valid way to change archetypes rapidly. Crime rates will be removed as they don’t serve any meaningful purpose, and will be one less stat for players to worry about.
Jobs
Although we’re past the stage of jobs being something players would assign manually to min-max bonuses, it would be important to note that jobs will instead be distributed in accordance to what resources are present and will be percentage-based as soon as a player reaches the third level of development. This means that the more jobs of a certain type there are, the more of a resource in that category you can use. At this point, it’ll be more flavour text, but some events or obstacles may require certain jobs, such as a drought requiring more farmers, or a dam requiring engineers. There will also be a certain percentage of the population that will be jobless, which is calculated in accordance with the amount of resources in relation to the population count. Of course, if unemployment becomes too high, happiness can decrease. I think this mechanic can be expanded a bit further, but I’ll see once the rounds are written.
Combat
As we reach a new combat age, people will have to adapt. I think the rock-paper-scissor system works well with dice rolls, even if it discourages diversification, but different tactics will now be used to counter troops. For example, an opponent in defense mode using a roman tortoise formation would give a large malus to someone using archers, but would get no bonus for using it in attack mode. Players can even invent their own formations! All you need to do is give a description (a picture would help) and I will determine what kind of bonus or malus it could provide.
However, guns will work differently. Warfare is about to change rapidly, with long-range shoutouts and proxy wars needing new mechanics to be reflected. Basically, guns after muskets won’t use the rock-paper-scissor system, but will instead rely more on equipment, tactics and army sizes instead. Guns themselves and their attachments will offer their own bonuses and ground unit types will evolve into new types: Crowd Control, Sniper, Marksman, Heavy Trooper and Low Yield. Crowd Control uses low-range, small arms for, as the name suggests, crowd control, like SMGs. Snipers use long-range sniper rifles with longer reload times and work terribly in close range. Marksmen work at medium range, using standard service rifles and marksman carabines. Heavy Troopers are more heavily armoured and handle heavier weapons, like LMGs, but can’t move far very efficiently. Low Yield are like scouts, using smaller firearms but can travel vast distances. As you can tell, distance will become a new variable to take into account in battles, which will be announced as the fight rounds go by.
I know this is a very deviating choice so let me know what you think about this change.
Government
Government types so far haven’t done anything, but that will change. Each government type will include its own bonus and malus, like a mini archetype. Monarchy, for example, allows for bonuses in stability, since they yield absolute power, but as a result, will suffer double stability loss if people lose faith in the king, whether because they don’t satisfy their needs or act out of character for their culture.
Landmarks
I feel like landmarks are really underdeveloped, but maybe as an incentive, they can give a temporary happiness boost, and an extra action for a few turns to incentivise landmark building. They can also be gifted to other nations (so long as you build them there), which would give a huge reputation boost. Landmarks can also span either admiration or jealousy from a nation, who might either flock to your cities, increasing your population, or trigger hostilities to take over the monument, so it’s not 100% success. Even then, I feel like landmarks can still use some more development. Let me know what you think.
Relations between Nations
Relations are now more “freestyle” and don’t necessarily follow a rigid structure like before. That way, it can be a little more open-ended and less repetitive. However, I feel like it should still really be expanded beyond “give gifts to increase friendliness”, but I can’t really figure out how. I guess completing tasks for them, helping them in war or developing trade routes could help, but it still feels really shallow and Spore-like. I really need help on that one.
From now on, being allied with a nation will copy your relations with other nations of lower types. For example, if Nation A allies with Nation B, but is hostile to Nation C, Nation B, who was friendly to Nation C, would now be hostile to Nation C because of the alliance. The same thing would occur with waging war, so choose your allies and enemies wisely!
Creating and joining federations and other organisations will cost an action each, and will have benefits varying from each type. Federations grant an extra action to each member that’s a player, coalitions grant temporary research boosts to each member until they dissolve, alliances allow tech sharing for free and unions merge nations into one empire (only works between NPCs or if a player decides to abandon their nation), while other organisations such as the UN would behave specially and would be treated as a case-by-case scenario.
Also, tech sharing will be a little different. Instead of making a deal and automatically getting a tech, one of the players will have to spend a turn actually going to the civ before the deal can be made. Alternatively, players can create trade routes, which wouldn’t require a transportation roll every time they want to share tech, which I hope will incentivise trade routes.
Milestones
Milestones would be achievements that people can complete, like being the first civ to reach space or to wage and win 10 wars, for example. Once a milestone is complete, it grants one Thrivecoin, which can be redeemed in the Evolushop for sweet lootboxes neat rewards, like an extra action for a few turns or a free tech. Each milestone can only be completed once by one person, so players have to hurry up if they want to get the reward before the others. Thanks for the idea Evo!
Regions and Colonies
To localise problems and add a little flavour to a player’s civ, civilisations will be divided by regions, with each region having its own population, cities, happiness and needs. Obviously, these stats will also be available in total in the civ’s general information area, but the goal is to sort of deconstruct a civ into small, manageable chunks, with each chunk being slightly different and having different things happen to it. To keep things simple, resources will not be taken into account for each region and will remain general, because it would become overwhelming, with the exception of colonies. Colonies are regions that are considered too far to be part of a civ, so they can develop their own culture and can be more volatile as a result. However, they give access to new resources and can be potentially very lucrative, as well as extending a civ’s sphere of influence beyond what they could normally reach, allowing interactions with even further civs.
Leaders
Leaders could use a little love, so I thought to make them more interesting, every couple of rounds (depending on government type) there would be a new leader, and if the actions under their management were substantial enough, they would enter the hall of fame, which is one of the contributions for Milestone awards. They will also give an extra bonus, like maybe better food yields for a turn if they’ve helped the agriculture sector, or extra riots if their war campaigns failed.
Alright, I think I went through everything, even though there are some things that still need to be changed. I know some of these ideas might not be appealing to some, but I can’t please everyone. I am open to suggestions though, so feel free to share your opinion.
@blackjacksike @Mr.Pigeon @Evolution4Weak @OoferDoofer @MechanicalPumpkin @Nover452 @TeaKing @Gotor @doomlightning
7 Likes
I love the idea of education levels, it adds an incentive to research not only one science, but many.
The times of the RNGods have ended, glory to the FairNGods
Failed rolls are back!
YES!!! MY SPICE TRADE EMPIRE SHALL RISE!!
I just want to build mines all over the Alps, exciting!
The rise of new systems is actually helpful now
This is actually one of my favorite changes, the idea that small changes might end up creating a new form of my civilization is just, as I said before, exciting
Well, this is really helpful for events I plan to do…
I was just thinking about this earlier, glad it actually was added
War has changed…
Ok I see encirclements, blitzkrieg, and combined arms warfare being possible with this
I, as a modern warfare enthusiast, really like this change. 10/10
I, as a geopolitics enthusiast, approve of this. 10/10
Wars of prestige will be caused because of this, I might even start one
Oh, the lost opportunity to call it Thrivium
lol
Don’t remember who had the idea of needs (might have been me, or pigeon. Most likely pigeon), but I still like it
My final thoughts, I really liked all the changes, though some would hinder me, especially the ones I liked the most (Resources, Needs, Colonies and Regions, Etc.). But I want to know, can I make an encirclement?
Also, maybe endorsing certain things (Governments, proposals, stuff like that) could improve relations with one civ, but harm them with another one. The same goes with disapproving things.
2 Likes
I have read it all and I must say it is well made.
But to be honest, I still do not have the right to say if it’s better because I’m just new here.
I think I should start working on everything (I would love a “directed hand”)
I am scared of being able to actually fail again lol
but anyways i think this system can be good but i definitely need more time to think about it
the only thing i worry about is if these mechanics might make the game too complex as the old system all of the complexities were really just optional but i think a proper round could help to see how these systems could play out
i do wonder how we are going to be able to migrate from the old system to the new one