Thrive Odyssey Research and Enrichment Center

blackjacksike · January 3, 2021, 3:33pm

The problem with this is that it contradicts the way we have played where some players can keep their techs or traits secret for a while. I do like the idea of globally sharing tech however as it somewhat represents the concept of diffusion. I have an idea for future games : all players would generate x Idea points depending on their type of government. Those idea points are stored into a shared bank managed by the Grand Master of the Future Games. Each player can spend some of those points to create their own technologies with a limit, of course. It’d make future games more like a kind of “hostile cooperation” game.

Also, since that school will start again soon, maybe we can spend our free time on rethinking the gameplay and testing it out in this thread?

Milestone

I have heard of the sweet Evolushop idea and it sounds great for all three stages. Let’s rename it for “Odyssey Shop” or “Odysseypedia”…

Odysseypedia

Database with content that is contributed by all players. We define what’s in the database. It could prove useful for future games.

Categories:

Art
Discovery
Food & drink
Materials
Media
Society
Technology
Tools
Weapons

I’ve noticed one thing : each category has resources and ways to use them. For instance, if art starts with dyes (resource), one can use those for painting (exploitation).

Art (resources) ----> Art (means)
Discovery (resources) ----> Science, Technology (means)
Science, Technology (resource) ----> Discovery (resource) /*Discovery is always a resource*/
Technology (resource) ----> Science (means)
Science (resource) ----> Engineering (means)

We just discovered a cycle, but let’s re-define some concepts.

Technology (resource) <----> Engineering (means)
Discovery (resource) <----> Science (means)

Technology  ↔  Engineering
    ↕             ↕
Discovery   ↔  Science

Art
Discovery, Engineering, Science & Tech (Weapons, Tools, Materials)
Food & drink
Media (e.g. writing, books, etc.)
Society

OmnipotentFNarr · January 4, 2021, 7:25pm

Yeah, I guess to start you off, you need to choose if you want to make your own civilization, or take over an existing one. To make your own civilization, give me your starting location, your archetype, your leader’s name and, if you want, your backstory, sort of like a mini-history to help me pick out appropriate starting tech. As a reference, you’ll be about as advanced as Gotor, so you can check out his civ to get an idea.

Alternatively, you can instead take over an available civ. The listings are as follows:

Player Civs

Etxe (Formerly Pentaphon’s civ before they left)
Hellenes (Formerly yp364’s civ before they left)
Wilhenks (Maybe) (I actually don’t remember if PositiveTower left, but I’m putting Wilhenks here just in case)
Canada (Formerly Zenzonegaming’s civ before they left, but it was very recent so they might come back)

Personnally, for the player civs, I would choose either the first or the second, but it’s really up to you.

NPC Civs

Persia (Very militaristic, 8 cities I think, if you pick them I’ll have to dig through the rounds to give more accurate information)
Scandinavia (I think?) (Raiders, big navy, soil isn’t the best for farming so they go on raids and attack other nations for resources)
Indus (Traders of the Indus Valley, they have diamonds)
Joseon (A civilization of the Korean peninsula, I don’t remember their archetype, but I think they were very diplomatic and cultured. I’d have to dig deeper into the rounds)
Inca (Technically secret, no one has discovered them yet, but they’re a mighty empire. Mighty in what way? Find out if you pick them!)

I decided not to include NPCs that are already federated, haven’t really been discovered yet (Such as the different African empires) or are in the middle of a certain conflict I will not name so that you aren’t thrusted into politics as soon as you start. I hope this helps.

blackjacksike · January 4, 2021, 8:57pm

Wait, so Pigeon didn’t find them yet?

doomlightning · January 4, 2021, 9:01pm

wow!
thx for the help!
I read all the options, and it turns out that I have a slightly different style (after a number of Humankin-Lucy and Stellaric games) that I run very passively non-diplomat-seeking.
The closest thing I wanted was the Inca: very interesting, and also from my story and the direction I really want. But I do not know if it really fits my style, because I do not know how powerful it is.
After thinking, I think I can combine the inca and create something new (I think it’s still creating a new civilization), so here’s:

Something

Name: Qruxtaz
Location: Nahuel Huapi Lake, Patagonia
Archetype: Defender
Leader name: Raqrix yus ixtal
Background Story:
Refugees of the Inca Empire after ancient destruction wandered for generations, persecuted by them until they found refuge in Patagonia and settled there, but for fear of being persecuted in the stories, they had to live in fear and specialized in defense tactics to maintain the peace they found from ancient destruction.

blackjacksike · January 4, 2021, 9:02pm

The new Eldorado from Candide?

OmnipotentFNarr · January 5, 2021, 12:11am

iirc, Pigron heard of them but hasn’t personally discovered them. It’s been so long though and I haven’t really bothered checking, but it shouldn’t matter too much

TeaKing · January 5, 2021, 11:52am

wait so I have a question
what will happen to the advanced stuff like guns that got unlocked by civs?

OmnipotentFNarr · January 5, 2021, 2:22pm

I’ll try to keep as much of everything as I can, but if it causes balancing issues, I might revoke some tech. Guns should be fine, but it will really be a case by case situation.

blackjacksike · January 5, 2021, 2:44pm

Anyway, we need to revise our new mechanics and test them out with examples in this thread. Maybe we can continue with the ‘Thomas Engine’ example?

I still can’t believe that name was chosen seriously! XD

Another thing, maybe techs would need a set amount of years to be developped depending on how advanced it is. Also, maybe time should increase by only 1 year every turn and therefore make rounds smaller (and more realistic)?

OmnipotentFNarr · January 5, 2021, 9:28pm

I would rather have tech always arrive at the same time for the sake of fairness, and also because if it didn’t it would get really hard to track really quickly and you wouldn’t be able to get anything done at some point. Also, advancing yearly sounds tedious for the period you guys are in, but we might get to that point eventually. Right now, in medieval times, life was uneventful and discoveries weren’t being made yearly.

Also, I would rather abandon Thomas the Tank Engine and work on the real round, as that would be more productive, but who knows, Thomas might one day make an appearance

Evolution4Weak · January 5, 2021, 10:48pm

So would my steam engine be taken away

OoferDoofer · January 5, 2021, 11:15pm

i think that guns, and everything past should be taken away. and if not guns, then everything past it. we went way to fast and i didnt really have time to roleplay much, as i had to try and catch up.

Also, how do you plan to manage snowballing, which was a problem in the previous version?

OmnipotentFNarr · January 6, 2021, 3:28am

To counter mass expansion and snowballing, I’ve already limited max actions to 6, and diversified the ways to get them so you don’t get too powerful too quickly from expanding. So while someone’s population might increase a lot if they invest in their cities, someone else might take the upper hand and become technologically superior by instead investing in tech, so spamming cities isn’t the meta anymore.

I do think taking away the steam engine and guns could be a good start, but like I said, I’ll analyze every civ’s stat and make these decisions individually, in the interest of fairness, while keeping the game fun and engaging.

blackjacksike · January 6, 2021, 2:31pm

Also, will organized democracy be prevented? I feel like democracy might not be useful for now as our population is quite low. Isn’t democracy supposed to be maintained and therefore take jobs away?

and holy crap 24 post in the misc thread? what happened?

OoferDoofer · January 6, 2021, 10:45pm

@OmnipotentFNarr do you have a complete list of the archetypes you want to include? if not, i can
A. help with making/adding to it and
B. help determine what each of them does.

OmnipotentFNarr · January 7, 2021, 2:06am

Actually, I’ve been making archetypes on the fly, managing bonuses and changing them up however I see fit. I think a hard list might help though.

I was thinking of making a wiki post with an editable list of archetypes, their description and their bonuses (but I forgot how lol)

blackjacksike · January 7, 2021, 3:43pm

Do you mean that Thomas Engine was not the real prototype or that we are already resuming the main game?

OmnipotentFNarr · January 7, 2021, 3:47pm

Thomas was the prototype, meant to test out the mechanics. It was really more just to develop a model for me to use when revamping the main game with the new mechanics.

So yes, I want to post the real main round first with updated mechanics, so that the game can start again.

blackjacksike · June 24, 2021, 9:08pm

Okay, so the original creator of the forum game wanted the first stage to be like Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey. I’m going to draw inspiration from it while trying to keep a balance between realism and gameplay.

I’m going to list the species playable in Ancestors¹.

The Missing Links
Sahelanthropus tchadensis “Toumai”
Orrorin tugenensis “Millenium Man”
Ardipithecus ramidus “Ardi”
Australopithecus afarensis “Lucy”
Australopithecus africanus “The Taung Child”

The game ends when the player evolves into Homo ergaster (Homo erectus).

Calvin initially wanted the stage to end with the discovery of fire, but I think we may go a bit further. Before going on that part, we should definitely discuss the science behind the aforementioned species.

The Missing Links

It is said that the missing links date from 10.0 to 9.1 million years ago and that it might represent Nakalipithecus nakayamai, a species of hominids that is hypothetically the common ancestor between humans, chimps and gorillas.² Given the similarities between its teeth and those of a gorilla, it was most likely herbivorous.³

Toumai

Toumai was a hominini species and apparently had facial features. Its most important aspect was that its spinal cord was connecting from below the skull and not from behind unlike non-bipedal apes. While it was not a bipedal species, this is an important feature to evolve if we want to become bipedal.⁴ In the game, it lives between 9.1 to 7.2 myrs ago when in reality, it lived between 7 and 6 myrs ago.⁵ It must have been a herbivorous and insectivorous ape. It is indicated that it lived in central Africa.

Millenium Man

The game clarifies that it lived between 7.2 to 5.3 myrs ago⁶, although it must have lived from 6.2 to 5.8 myrs ago⁷. Just like its predecessor, it was probably herbivorous and insectivorous. Evidence also suggests that it was bipedal because of its upper femur. It was located in Eastern Africa.

Ardi

It lived around 4.4 myrs ago in Eastern Africa. Evidence shows that it lived in woods and had a pelvis that allowed both bipedal and climbing activities. Unlike its predecessors, which had thin enamel (for soft food), Ardi had nor thick nor thin enamel and was suited to eat most food types; it was omnivorous.⁸

Lucy

Lucy lived in the Eastern African woods between 3.85 to 2.95 myrs ago. It was bipedal and omnivorous; it would eat mostly plants and insects and sometimes small vertebrates. Children growth was also shorther than modern humans’.⁹

The Taung Child

It was a very similar species to Lucy except that they didn’t eat small vertebrates, even though they occasionally ate eggs. They also lived in Southern Africa from 3.3 to 2.1 myrs ago. It might also have been capable of pronouncing short syllables.¹⁰

So far, it seems like a good idea that the first stage would revolve about genetic milestones to lay the foundations of humanity. 75% of this stage should be around that mechanic, which gives 25% of the remaining gameplay for the players to incarnate 5 different species of the Homo genus: Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis, Homo sapiens and Denisovans. During this last quarter, players may form small clans with each other no matter what species they’re playing as.

Mechanics to define

Clans
Genetics
Auto-evo
Energy
Milestones
Crafting

Players

Ok, so what should the players worry about in the first stage to survive? Let’s think about the variables.

Hunger/Energy
Sleep
Water/Hydration
Relations with others
Abilities
Possible actions

Hunger

Energy should be in kJ and the required amount of energy depends on:

How much energy you spend (kJ)
Weight (kg)
Size (cm)
Age (years)

Berries

Berry	Species	Region	Description
Acokanthera Berry	Acokanthera schimperi	Eastern Africa	It is edible when ripe, yet becomes dangerously toxic when fermented.¹¹
Carissa Berry	Carissa macrocarpa	South Africa	As a fruit coming from a shrub, it provides 259 kJ per 100 g to its consumer.¹²
Elderberry	Sambucus ebulus	Northwest Africa	Poisonous when unripe. Gives 305 kJ per 100 g when consumed¹³. The plant itself may also be used for therapeutics.¹⁴
Iboga Berry	Tabernanthe iboga	Western Africa	[Research needed]. Roots can be used as a hallucinogenic drug, but may prove lethal.¹⁵
Taami Berry	Synsepalum dulcificum	Western Africa	Has the property of changing sour taste of other foods to a sweet taste.¹⁶

See Attachment

Sources