So, my idea was to be able to use the Endosymbiosis fetcher to use up the extra resources of another bening.TO ENPLANE:I hate the current system of endosymbiosis as you just get a normal organel so why not have ALL of the other beings’ unused compondes, like rent.
You can only activate endosymbiosis if the crester has more than a certain percentage of extra compondes.
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I am afraid that the “full endosymbiosis” feature is currently in the list of optional features for the microbe stage.
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This isn’t really about the endosymbiosis full concept. I read the OP twice and I think what they mean just is that when you do the endosymbiosis action it should “steal” all the compounds still in the cell that gets turned into an organelle and give them to the player. So it’s not that big of a feature to add, but requires investigating two points:
- Is it realistic that a species that is being turned into an endosymbiont would voluntarily give up all of its compounds to the host cell. Wouldn’t it itself just die then and there would be less evolutionary benefit to enter the symbiosis relationship if it was treated less fairly? Though I admit I’m not familiar with the actual scientific research into how endosymbiosis relationships formed.
- The game balance aspect needs a bit of consideration as the player could get an absolute ton of easy resources by abusing the endosymbiosis system (starting endosymbiosis of a huge species likely to have a bunch of resources with no intention of ever actually completing it, by for example cancelling and starting it again each editor cycle).
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Maybe you could get like 50% of the compounds the endosymbiont had before getting engulfed?
You are seeing it from an organism point of view while evolution happens at the genetic level, if you want the trade off then here it comes:you are successful organism (you make a lot of copies of yourself) then I am a not very successful one then I merge with you I give you full control but you should copie me with you whenever you want to reproduce , so from a genetic level I get my genes copied and share your success with you. So now it’s not your success it’s our success.
Note:this align perfectly with the idea of getting all of the endosymbiont organels since you’ll need to copie all the genes anyway .
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So you mean that even if an endosymbiont gave up all it’s resources to the host cell, it would still have it’s genes spread down the line?
Yup, since the the new organels that will be made are just the genes of the endosymbiont being ativated(even if it’s just partial in most real life scenario, not all the genes gets activated)
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So this would end up giving the player cell some resources when they engulf the endosymbiont… And the player cell wouldn’t get the endosymbiont temporary organelle straight away…
No, it’s a little more complicated then this but I’ll try to simplify it, look you engulf me, if you dissolve all my compounds then ,it’s over I won’t become your endosymbiont, if you take any unnecessary ressources for reproduction(steel,sugar,…)and you conserve my genetic material (let’s assume it’s the organels and the phosphare and the amoniac) then you have the choice to replicate this genetic material (the symbiot route) or just dissolve afterword( normal engulfment route) so if you want me to specify a logical conditions for endosymbiosis to work:
1-the organism should be ready to reproduce ( could enter the editer if the player want)
2- the organism should have the phosphore and amoniac levels topped
3-the organism should engulf the target speciy while in this stat
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The problem here is that AI microbes won’t hesitate to reproduce if they’re ready for it. So the window would be very small.
How would you even get steel in microbe stage?
I meant fer , or if you want the source it’s abondent the in nature
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Still, how would the player know when the window for engulfing an endosymbiosis-applicable microbe is open?
There is a reason why this have only happened once in all the Earth history!
For the player , when he open the endosymbiosis menu , explanation is served to him
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Maybe the endosymbiosis-target species would have a special glow or an another effect of some sort when it’s in the condition to be endosymbiosized?
The conditions are on the host most of the time rather then on the target so if you want to notify the players about it you could do like in the tutorial about engulfing , when the player is ready to go to the editor, you make a message " do you want to try endosymbiosis?"
If yes:
first top off the phosphore and amoniac level
Once this is done:
- engulf a speciy to make it endosymbiont
If no:go to the editor
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Oh, when talking about these requirements I thought you meant the target needs to fullfill those requirements…
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No, it’s the player or the host microbe in general
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Note here that player species is the sole species capable of endosymbiosis. Autoevo doesn’t have that functionality.
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This sounds around right , it’s as you mentioned very narrow time frame for an IA microbes to do it ,I could think of a very complicated sequence of mutations which are completely and realistically feasible but this only confirms the hardness of this operation. For a non-controled microbe , any way I want as well to make a full record of what have been said.
The conditions for a successful endosymbiosis:
The host:
- being ready to replicate itself
- have topped it’s phosphore and amoniac reservoir
- engulf a Target speciy while in this stat
the target: - should not be toxic
- should not have a nucleus (as it will protect the genetic material and make the process of copying them impossible)
- have a limited number of organels ( the reservoir of phosphore and amoniac of the host should be enough to replicate it)
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Eukaryotic endosymbionts are a thing tho.
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