Active reproduction ("No passive reproduction") settings setup and guide

Hello and welcome to my guide to playing with no passive reproduction (this guide was updated for 0.7.0).

But first: Why play with active reproduction requirements? Well, this topic is a continuation of this one (slider for reproduction resource progress), so the theory is there; so suffice to say, it is more fun this way. To me, this way of playing is more gratifying since you actually have to earn your reproduction and not just sit there. I find this also more realistic because cells that don’t get resources don’t actually reproduce in real life (organelle and DNA duplication isn’t free). Given that the slider hasn’t been included (yet?) I will focus here on the practice of setting up your game and the aspects of becoming a proactive cell.

Anyways, here’s the things you need to know beforehand and which act as reasoning and justification for these options set-up:

  • Since the game is now designed to auto-reproduce, moving more and actually getting the reproduction compounds is an extra cost on top of the balance. Result: We will need to adjust osmoregulation.
  • The compound cost for reproduction is unreasonably astronomical (as admitted by developers). Result: The compounds need to be made more abundant.
  • Last and more importantly, gameplay in each stage will be much longer (as also argued by lead dev; worst part and the only one we can’t fully compensate; thus the other topic). Result: We need to speed up evolution in each stage as well accordingly.

But, after all, most can be compensated and the reward is a much more proactive game. So let’s get to it.

MAIN SETTING:
“Passively gain reproduction progress” needs to be disabled, lest all the other changes be in vain.

Other settings:

“MUTATION COST MULTIPLIER”
Let’s set this between 0.4 and 0.5, since each of our stages will be 2-3 times as long in gameplay, even with the rest of adjustments. This will allow us to keep mutating at a good rate, though there will be less intermediate stages/gradualism.

“AI MUTATION RATE”
Proportionally, this can be from 2.0 to 2.5 - As we will evolve faster, we need to ensure the AI can keep pace and even outpace us, for an interesting gameplay experience. This will also mean we will face more exotic cells.

“COMPOUND CLOUD DENSITY”
As we need a lot of compounds to divide, and game design stopped accounting for this a long time ago, I’d argue this has to be around 2.0 - and no less than 1.5 at the least.

“ENVIRONMENTAL GLUCOSE RETENTION”
This is more like a “difficulty slider”, so you can use it as you please still. While we need more glucose, we will also have less discrete phases overall to lose environment glucose, so this balances itself out.

“OSMOREGULATION COST MULTIPLIER”
This is a tricky one. I’d say it has to be from 0.75 to 0.9 tops - we need to move more to get to those compound clouds. We will also be using compound-producing organelles to reproduce, which also cost osmoregulation/ATP/glucose. Also we need more storage, which again has an osmoregulation cost due to the membrane and it makes us bigger and slower. So, do not be shy to turn it down a bit from the default. Around 15-20% discount compared to your auto-reproduce gameplay could be relatively fair. AI cells are apparently also not affected by either this setting OR the reproduction difficulties since they just use population simulation, so take that in mind.

“FREE GLUCOSE CLOUD WHILE LEAVING EDITOR”
Since even with the discount we will have to move more and consume energy, I’d strongly recommend to keep this on. We are probably using this glucose just to swim a bit, and it won’t unbalance the game even for more “hardcore” players, since there’s no going around that you still to get a lot of compounds from the map.

“LIMIT GROWTH COMPOUND USAGE”
Personally, I like to keep this on, as it is more realistic to be mindful of storing these compounds rather than consuming them instantly. But you can switch it off for faster gameplay.

(PLANET)
“ENABLE DAY/NIGHT CYCLE”
If you want a day/night cycle, I’d recommend to go for a faster and shorter one: a day/night cycle of around 60-75 seconds will be more optimal, since you need the storage for other purposes, and also need to move more. Otherwise your photosynthetic cell may go “puff” very soon.

“LIFE ORIGIN”
I’d say the greater resource abundance of “Hydrothermal Vents” is preferable; a warm little pond is playable, but can be more of a challenge specially if you migrate across the surface.

Rest of settings: At will

  • The gameplay mode will not negatively affect if you are LAWK or not, Misc., Fog of War, switch to related species, death population penalty, and so on and so forth. You can choose your preferred settings with no ill effect.

Do tell me if this has been useful for you, or you have any other comments or reccomendations!

And remember to Thrive!

5 Likes

This is a really well thought out alternative playstyle for Thrive. Thanks for making this!

I want to comment on one specific thing:

While the storage cost is as you say: you need slightly more. The other part I don’t think is really true. I think that most players play mobile builds, i.e. they want to move around. So most players already play with the movement energy cost being basically always on. Thus I’d say that a purely from balancing to normal gameplay standpoint, I would have set the osmoregulation multiplier not so low.

1 Like

I tried this multiple times. While I did normally use like 0.9 osmoregulation multiplier which I think its on by default in some of the difficulties, it was painful. While most players will “move” somewhat, you need to move a lot more to reproduce with no auto reproduction. This means you not only have to fight or evade other cells as in “normal” gameplay; you need to get to compound clouds, and you need to do so before other cells gobble them up (while they do not gobble them from outside a certain range, large cells specially eukaryotic as you have to evolve, do need some time to get to them).

Also consider that as you said, you need more storage for this type of gameplay (otherwise you can’t store the reproduction compounds properly and could only use them while sitting in the compound itself). Your storage makes your cell larger as you noted. But you didn’t note this also affects the movement dynamics: Moving larger cells costs significantly more, maintaining storage costs more, and even then you become slower and less efficient with size by default. Try it, I’m sure you will come to see 0.8 is not unreasonable, and even then your cell will probably be a bit of a slob (in 0.9 I usually need to pick like -30/-40% osmoregulation cost membranes just to have a minimum positive ATP balance while moving, this also means you are slower and can’t engulf).

The switch to auto reproduce was also made time before current storage and energy requirements were balanced/rebalanced I seem to remember.

In any case, I hope the option to gain reproduction progress actively is not removed in any future build, as me and several other people would be bummed to see this alternate gameplay “extinguished”…

I mean, it’s not really because cells also don’t need to go around hunting for clouds of phosphorous and ammonia compounds. They’re either eating bigger chunks, or just taking the more evenly distributed stuff dissolved in the water all around them. As far as I know that’s what the (now) default system in thrive is trying to do.

Fun as an alternative way to play though.

3 Likes

Doing a run of this and it’s actually p. fun. Might be just the mutation cost being low, though, and also the fact that I was able to go nyoom with the aid of a max-length flagellum and all the metabolism stuff I have.

Currently hovering at the end of prokaryote level. Could progress to eukaryote, but the thing is, I don’t really want to, mainly because endosymbiosis is a pain and I’d probably end up taking the nucleus with no chloroplast or mitochondrion to show for it.