Or having a little bit of every metabolism type, while not being the dominant metabolism type in the organism, as a safety netβ¦
2 Likes
I donβt think thatβs a good solution, youβd be very easily outcompeted by the specialists
1 Like
Having one Rusticyanin and one Chemosynthesizing proteins definitely helped save my species when I least expected it to a number of occasions, even when those were not the dominant metabolism. 
2 Likes
You also need radio and thermo to have every metabolism type
Would it is still be possible to evolve plantanimal like organisms by having some cells with a non-walled membrane in Multicellular and beyond? Also, are these organelle restrictions going to be expanded? Just because earth did not necessarily evolve those combinations of membrane and organelle types does not mean it should be completely impossible for it occur on another world. I wonder if a sandbox mode/easier modes would still allow for such combinations?
I am curious as to what would happen in strange cases where Fear is high and Opportunism/Aggression is high? Auto-Evo can create weird combinations.
2 Likes
Arenβt the devs moving towards removing this capability?
3 Likes
Indeed this is on the roadmap. If you look at real life species, they all have a single basic membrane/wall type, and I thought it would be good to represent this in Thrive, and use it as a way to make a very clear difference between some clades of life.
The idea is to only use this on things that really are physically impossible. For example, myofibrils contracting to make muscle contract requires the cells themselves to contract, which is not feasible with a rigid cell wall, especially a mineral one.
I am planning to have an alternative for cellulose/chitin cell walls in hydraulic cells, which is how IRL plants can move. That way, you can still do most things with these cell walls, but we can set the stats so that it feels significantly different from Single/Double membrane life with real muscles.
So this is unlikely, considering both itβs not really a βdifficultyβ question, and more of a βbelievabilityβ and βinteresting gameplayβ question. It would also make implementing the function quite a bit more complex.
3 Likes
I recall hydraulics also play a part in the movement of some animals like spiders
3 Likes
True, though of a different type, and on a different scale.
Plants suck water into cells to expand them and press outwards.
Spiders use muscles to contract their body, which pressurises the fluid in their body, which presses the legs to extend.
4 Likes
I presume hydraulics will only come in macro and not quite yet in multi?
2 Likes
That depends on which you mean.
For the plant cell (if we have it), it would also be in Multicellular.
For that spider-style system (if we have it), it would be in Macroscopic/Aware.
3 Likes
Would the spider one require some kind of a hydraulics system in multicellular already
2 Likes
No, theyβre basically completely independent things.
At most, you could say spider hydraulics require some type of body cavity, and in the Multicellular Stage, we might add the ability to build something like a simple body cavity. But that is nowhere near guaranteed.
3 Likes
Wasnβt it suggested for this to be a prerequisite for moving on to macro?
1 Like
Suggested, yes, but we havenβt made solid decisions on that yet. Right now non-cell parts are still in the βif we have timeβ status.
3 Likes
Because of the thing with enclosed areas needing to be filled in with something else, yeah.
Kind of scary to think weβre already like a third of the way through multicellular development
3 Likes
For the βDoubleβ membrane:
- Remove osmoregulation discount
- decrease health
- Increase toxin resistance
So the Double membrane is now a variant of βNormalβ that sacrifices some speed for increased defense, but especially against toxins. (This is also effective against engulfed toxic cells).
Will the absorption and movement speed still be kept less than βNormalβ?
Also, I hope the slightly lower osmoregulation cost and increase in health is kept in some fashion, even if it is not exactly at the same values as before. Otherwise, these changes could make double membrane somewhat less useful than before by making it a βvariantβ, since I could just go for chitin (which I normally do) for getting toxin resistance. I already use double membrane over regular membrane because of the greater health and osmoregulation discount while still having the ability to engulf.
Maybe organisms with double membranes can have an additional bonus toward becoming organelles from endosymbiosis?
2 Likes
Yes, right now those are still unchanged.
Right now the osmoregulation cost is the same as Normal. Health is now 70 instead of 100 versus Normalβs 50.
I am of course listening to all feedback, so this can all still change.
But the objective here so far is to make the Double membrane an anti-toxin adaptation that still allows you to engulf. (which also makes it the ideal option for eating toxic cells)
In the current public version, taking a very small speed penalty (and an absorption speed reduction that frankly does not make much difference right now) in return for the osmoregulation cost reduction and health is a bit too much of a no-brainer choice, as I think your comment indicates (and auto-evo agrees).
To a lesser degree there was also the motivation that unlike with cell walls, I donβt see much scientific justification for it giving an osmoregulation cost reduction (if anything, you could say it should cost more).
This would definitely be new functionality, rather than just some number changes. But more importantly, this would just be a benefit to the player if any microbes happen to have this membrane type. It is not a balance factor for the species itself.
3 Likes
I feel like at some point a proper antitoxin system should be added so that normal membraned cells/organisms made of such cells also have a chance at getting into this toxic-eating niche.
2 Likes