Comments on Specific Development Forum Posts

Would some “States” require certain “Components” as prerequisites before they could be evolved? For example: needing Nerve Rings before you can upgrade from a Diffused Nerve Net to a Bilateral Nervous System (Echinoderms have both), and then needing to replace the Nerve Rings with Nerve Ganglion before upgrading to a Cephalized Nervous System (Cephalopods, Vertebrates, and (depending on your definition) many Arthropods)?

Also, would it make sense to make having a Cephalized Nervous System be a prerequisite to having a Skeletal System?

Edit: Also, as I caught when reading @aah31415’s post here, some Bilaterans (like Echinoderms) have Nerve Rings, so making that Diffuse Nerve Net specific would be inaccurate.

5 Likes

That depends on how you define a skeletal system, since arthropods and echinoderms have stuff pretty close to it despite not being fully cephalized

3 Likes

Arthropods are Cephalized. I even mentioned that in my post.

Although Echinoderms are are good question. I have also been wondering about Mollusc Shells.

2 Likes

Should there be a distinction between fully cephalized creatures and ones which still have ganglia besides the main neural body?

2 Likes

Cephalopods have Ganglia in their arms (referred to as brains), and yet the word is likely named after them (Cephalopod/Cephalized).

Also, I changed my post to say (depending on you definition).

2 Likes

Would hydrostatic skeletons be considered skeletons for this discourse?

3 Likes

Maybe it could just be for Endoskeletons?

Then again, while the only endoskeleton we are aware of have a clear head and is cephalized, maybe others would not? Hmm.

Perhaps the suggestion for making it a skeleton prerequisite was not thought out. I will scratch that out.

2 Likes

Perhaps there could be also a nerve rod/spinal cord component available to the bilaterals?

3 Likes

In case my earlier example was unclear: Echindoerms are Bilaterans (as juveniles), and have Nerve Rings.

They are probably the best example of Nerve Ring Bilateral Nervous System.

2 Likes

Would there be any advantages to being a deuterostome over a protostome?

2 Likes

Don’t Protosomes make up 95% of animal species?

3 Likes

Yes? Vertebrates and Echinoderms are the deuterostomes so would them being that have anything to do with their characteristics?

3 Likes

Wasn’t that division after the development of eggs? I believe the embryos are developed past the point where that would matter by the time they hatch don’t they?

3 Likes

I suppose so. I guess we wouldn’t need an option to choose whether the original cavity becomes the mouth or not then, right?

3 Likes

I honestly haven’t thought too much about the specifics of how components and have focused more on defining the larger concept. Though I think your idea here shows my intended goal with the over-arching idea - broad enough to conveniently organize a large number of diverse body plans, which enough customization to allow some interesting stories related to progression. That could be one way to deal with progression.

My larger macroscopic editor concept does consider it to be a skeleton. I think a skeleton for Thrive’s purpose can largely be thought of as the underlying structural organization rather than a specific hardened part - which, to be fair, is also kind of what skeleton represents in the broadest sense in science.

I was tripped up over whether or not to consider a notochord a component since I would think it would best be represented as a state. This could tie into the “place components to evolve to the next state” discussion, where you’d have to place notochords along the entirety of your body to become a vertebrate. Though again, that needs a more detailed and comprehensive description of progression to make sure it doesn’t get redundant.

The most difficult part of making macroscopic concepts is making a rule broad enough to consistently be applied across most cases of a subject, without it being so broad that it takes away too much detail from specific cases.

I tried to look into that when I was making that larger basic phylogeny tool I have, but I think the best conclusion is that we shouldn’t get too deep into embryology. That’s extremely complicated science that can usually best be proxied through other concepts and mechanics that aren’t as difficult to understand, or as minute.

5 Likes

And also have them form vertebrae I presume? Since otherwise you’d just get a lancelet (or a hagfish maybe)

3 Likes

Would organisms with radial symmetry (from previous discussions would most likely include trisymmetry, link) be able evolve multiple notochords at once, or each notochord would have be evolved separately?

2 Likes

Wouldn’t you be modifying a radial unit of such a creature so if you added a notochord to a starfish-like’s arm for example it’d instantly also be in all other arms right?

2 Likes

But each “radial unit” could still de-evolve, or evolve separately from another afterward, right?

2 Likes

Yeah but if it evolves from an unit that already had a noto it’d still have a noto right?

2 Likes