But your evolution isn’t taken away till society stage (Even that is debatable), just use a few more editor cycles if you get that late and messed up.
This is like complaining that in an role-playing game you ran out of potions before you reached the dungeon boss, just take the loss and go back to shop, get more potions and try again.
- How can we ensure that this is actually possible for a player to do? I’m assuming there’ll be less evolution in awakening, and fire-use is still a pretty specific trait to evolve
- What if they actually make it to society without fire? That doesn’t seem very implausible, and most people agree that you don’t need fire to reach society stage
Do you think fire is necessary to reach society stage
- Yes
- No
0
voters
Also the game is evolution based, do you know what happens in evolution, a lot, failure; if you play the game badly you will have to go back sometimes; and even if you somehow managed to get to society without fire, just add an edge case to the tech tree to make fire an invention, since if you reached the society your species is already smart enough to learn how to use fire, it’s not rocket science.
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I wouldn’t consider not reading the tutorials in the simple parts to be bad gameplay
Do you mean as in making fire a specialized industrial/preindustrial trade like electricity or mechanics? Then we agree. If you mean it as in letting players randomly use fire in society stage, then you’re violating realism, and thus destroying the only argument you have to make fire necessary in the first place
Frankly, if you don’t realize that fire (which does occur naturally even if you do nothing) can be used to your advange, and never even received a middle school understandy of human history, and didn’t think to look it up, then yeah, you bad lol
We have mastered electricity with no natural affinity for it, I see no reason it couldn’t have a dedicated trade and be unrealistic, especially since fire is more immediately useful than electricity.
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Fire is necessary to become industrial, which is late society stage. So it isn’t a society stage prerequisite necessarily
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There is more to designing a creature around a specific natural phenomenon than realizing that it is useful
So we agree that fire, if not discovered in aware stage, should be treated as a hard to understand/control phenomenon for near the industrial stage, like electricity and stuff?
Yes, but if you realize fire is useful, and then use it, you would be benefitting yourself immediately, and kneecapping yourself if you try to start society stage, which is only otherwise possible if you get lucky with auto-evo to give you super food and you specialize in that instead,
and you’ll need fire anyways by mid-society stage to get metal, and expand beyond the range of your fruits.
So have we come to an agreement?
But is it really that simple? How can you prove that it is?
This is literally the argument that got the previous thread locked. Yes it is useful.
Some uses of fire:
Cook food
Ward off predators
Warmth
Ability to make pottery (this one is honestly a prerequisite for society imo, because of the ability to hold water)
Smelt metals (also a very very important part of society stage)
Light source
Ability to create a lot of chemical reactions
Can be used as a somewhat fast means of communication through smoke signals, or even seeing the fire itself from long distances (think of Disney mulan’s “now all of china knows you are here”)
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Being useful is not the same thing as being easy to get. Please provide evidence that any smart animal can suddenly adapt for fire in a realistic way
that’s not a good argument. You can say the same thing for tools, or any other technology, and and that’s not what you were arguing, you specifically stated how can it be useful? Just because an intelligent species doesn’t seem the immediate uses for something doesn’t make it unuseful, we humans have made discoveries that we didn’t utilize until later on, like electricity or steam power
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If your species can’t use fire it can’t use fire, and if it can’t adapt to use fire it can’t adapt to use fire. This is just how things work, regardless of what fire can or can’t do
Well then that’s easy your soft locked in that stage, like I said, this is just the underwater civilization (not stage, my apologies) catch 22, if you cant progress, oh well, game over
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If so many players can be softlocked within a certain system then maybe we should use another system
Then homo sapiens doesn’t exist?
Simply put, if your species is at the ‘awakening’ stage then it is capable of learning, a wild fire is going to push back dangerous predators and its wake will be filled charred bodies and plants to eat (And opportunistic animals will come to eat this free food); if you are in awakening, you already use sticks and stones, attempting to wield a stick that is currently on fire to use that power for yourself only takes a lack of self preservation.
Which something in the wheelhouse of most people who play video games, seriously, have you seen another person play, say, farcry or zelda: botw? players will try to see what they can do with fire.
I think you are seriously forgetting that the people that play the game are human, and will want to use it, most gamers jump on top of torches to see if a game has fire damage ffs.
This is one of those situations where it really could rely on the actions of an individual, not slow change over time, which gives it to the player, or you if really don’t care and want to speedrun, just use the editor, crank “fear of heat” in the behavior tab way down, and since your species is already capable of learning and tool use, let it happen automatically if “not having it be chance” is too big a deal breaker.
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Or just read the tutorial? Players don’t need to be hand held the whole way through the game, the game wouldn’t be fun. And that defeats the point of discovering stuff and learning what is best to do
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One species doesn’t disprove everything
If this was true then we’d see other animals use or at least understand fire. This doesn’t happen outside of our closest relatives and a few random raptors
We can’t just sacrifice all realism because people want to play with fire, especially if we want to use realism to justify cutting off major types of civilization
Could you give an example of a species that couldn’t use fire? It seems like such a weird point to make.