Multicellularity without a nucleus

organelle reduction.
I still don’t quite understand why you can’t remove organelles from cells in the multicell editor. How then in the future it is possible to receive non-nuclear erythrocytes? Or how to simply reduce the size of cells of a certain type? Or, for example, the organism has switched from photosynthesis to hunting, how it will have to reduce photosynthetic organelles. In my opinion, removing the possibility of removing organelles from cell types is a very controversial decision, since in reality evolution occurs at the cellular level, and reduction also occurs (for example, non-nuclear mammalian erythrocytes or reduced avian erythrocytes)

In general, please think about it, because from the very beginning it looked like a strange bug
And yes, I did not find similar topics on the forum, so I’m writing a new one

I tried to guess what you meant and adjusted the thread title and category accordingly.

I literally meant that in the game at the moment there is no way to reduce an organelle at the level of a cell type, which is rather strange, erythrocytes are just the most striking example of the reduction of cell organelles in reality
Well, there is still such an option that this function simply does not work for me, and this is still a bug, but it seems that you said that it was intended that way
may not be clear due to google translate

What do you mean by “reduce”? You can currently edit any cell type in multicellular and remove organelles from it. However, the nucleus can’t be removed as it can’t be removed anyway, and the binding agents can’t be removed because it wouldn’t make much sense to still be multicellular but no longer have the binding agents.

Then the question is whether it will be possible to remove the nucleus and binding agents from the cell type in the later stages of the game.
Although the issue of creating prokaryotic colonies is also quite interesting, just recently practiced in Gram staining, bacterial colonies are breathtaking, and it would be cool to see this in the game

That’s the wrong question to ask.

The right question is if we ever feel like making prokaryotic multicellular creatures. Which I won’t give a definite answer on behalf of everyone, but that seems quite unlikely to happen.

Well, as if there are no known cases of true multicellularity of prokaryotes, and, quite likely, it is impossible in principle, so I’m more likely to ask about the binding of prokaryotic cells in a colony, like in bacteria

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If you cannot bind to other cells, you cannot be multicellular.

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blood cells arent binded to your body

then how does blood exist? blood cells are not connected to our body, as the person above said
then how are we multicellular?

I seriously doubt we will be editing blood via the cells themselves, because:

A: we would likely be editing with tissues by that point, not individual cells.

B: allowing players to edit blood cells is pointless on the face of it, as the cells IRL are so perfectly and hyper specifically adapted in their requirements to work, that if you change essentially anything about them you die of anemia.
Sickle cell disease says “hi”.

It’s far more practical to simply have blood/lymph/whatever oxygen carrying cell you choose, to be a consequence of the vascular system and the tissues you use to create that, which you would then specialize through upgrades.

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Except without being able to customize the oxygen carrying blood cells, we couldn’t have copper based blood:

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I’m curious… what exactly did you think I was referring to when I said: “ whatever oxygen carrying cell you choose”?
Because hemocyanin is exactly the oxygen carrier I was thinking of, when I said that.

What, exactly, do you think is preventing hemocyanin, among other types of “blood”, from being a possibility under the system that I described? What is stopping the choice of hemoglobin vs hemocyanin from being two branching paths to pick from, via interaction with your vascular system?

What in the world, is the difference between choosing the red stuff and the blue stuff, that would allow one to work as I described, but not the other?

How would those cells be made if not with the cell editor?

It doesn’t. It would just mean that we need to add another system into the game for picking that instead of using existing components like the cell editor. Also if the fundamental blood type is pickable from a list how does that fit in with gradual changes and MP use? We are getting into Spore levels of huge changes at once if you just have one dropdown to select the type of blood you want on some circulatory system screen.

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Question. How is it even possible to edit tissue without editing the cells that make it up? I can’t even imagine how you imagine editing any tissue and its functions without changing the cells of which it consists
It seems to me that it would be most logical to make cell types in each tissue that are edited manually and on their basis the tissue receives its properties

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You ask this question, and then immediately go on to talk and showing that you already know the answer.
You either don’t understand the premise, or you do. Pick one.

Organelle upgrades ——> Tissue and organ upgrades.
This is not a new system. This is literally just the same type of thing that is already planned, just scaled up to the next stage.

Literally nothing about this prevents us from having gradual changes. That’s a load of nonsense.
If you are unable to visualize how the upgrade system can allow for gradual change, you have a bigger problem than just how blood is adapted.

Just. Add. Gradual. Stages. Of. Upgrades.
This is not that hard.
Either have many successive unlocks for each trait that get progressively more specialized farther along the chain, or make each trait a slider that requires mutation points to move, like ones that already exist in game.

Forcing the player to create and edit blood cells is inane, for the same reason forcing them to create and edit pain, heat, and pressure receptors would be, all three of which are specialized nerve cells in the skin, that do not need to be directly simulated in game.

The same way the adaptation of blood can be indirectly simulated by upgrades of the heart or equivalent vascular organs, those receptors can be indirectly simulated by upgrades to either integumentary tissues, or the nervous system.

The player simply cannot be expected to create and edit from 100 to over 2,300 different potential cell types in a multicellular organism:

The cells of many tissues and organs can be edited directly from cells, but clearly not all of them. That is a given, and not something you can really argue against.
Therefore, some of these cell types will HAVE to be either thrown out entirely, assumed to exist regardless, or represented in ways that do not require the player to literally manage everything about it like they did in unicell.

You cannot throw out blood, or assume it’s already there, but you can easily simplify it into a function of the system/organ that pumps it.

I don’t want to pick a side here, but would you mind making a mock up if what you are suggesting instead of assuming people understand you? It might help clear up some of the issues.

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Perhaps similar to choosing how your colony reproduces in the multicellular stage it could cost MP to choose and you have to use MP to upgrade the efficiency of the blood (so it starts out low), but I am not saying this is the only or the most efficient way

Edit: I have made a top quality concept art about what I mean

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Yes im not seing you bad but your bether thany i cant even draw that good whit a mouse

It. So. And working.
The essence of the game is in its scientific nature, and not in ignoring the most obvious things. And yes, you can’t take and make receptors some kind of slider or something similar, simply because a person can create each receptor himself. This receptor may not exist in reality, but if it is possible in theory, it should be possible to create it. The same with the oxygen carrier in the blood, you think as narrowly as possible, trying to destroy the creative potential of the game. Imagine, there are many more molecules that can act as hemoglobin in the blood than 2 (and you wrote something like “choose hemoglobin or hemocyanin” or something like that). I’ll tell you more - the chance that hemoglobin or hemocyanin will appear on another planet is extremely small, as well as the fact that a protein identical to the earth’s or something else will appear. But here, as it were, there is already a problem with the fact that in fact we do not know which connection can exist and which cannot. Okay, if we could select the properties of blood in this way (sliders), but, sorry, shaped elements are too important objects to dismiss them. You can add something like auto-evo for cells that will generate new cell types from one, this could solve many problems (for example, generate several types of nerve cells so that the player does not have to do it manually), you can even do this, so that you don’t have to make too many cells, making only their stem cells, but this idea is, frankly, quite controversial
Oh, and also, the cell editor is a huge mechanic that took several years to create, and even now it is not ready yet. There is nothing more stupid than just taking and throwing it in the trash, just because “ыыы это другой этап((9(”
(it’s not difficult at all to score in a translator, and the emotions that this phrase carries can only be conveyed in Russian, sorry. “ыыы” is used as a representation of the sound, but, again, the translator can voice)
Okay, I’m off to have tea, good luck