Yeah but how will it work in game?
And what if it restrict only some parts?
And what about you would randomise some parts?
Yeah but how will it work in game?
for the most part you sculpt your own parts from scratch. though there will be some pre-made parts for those who don’t want to make they’re own.
Wouldn’t parts be shaped by the shape of the coelom and other organs, and adjusted to change the size of the organs?
It’s been 2 days, and this is nothing to do with the last post while still on topic, so I’ll double post.
Here is my idea for the organism editor. You would have 2 tools, an appendage/pit tool, and a layer tool. The layer tool can be used to define layers, add in fluid cavities, and change tissue properties. The append (appendage/pit) tool can made things that bulge in or out of the main body. These could have their shape or posistion changed. Pits close enough can be fused into a tube. These tools should be able to make anything that the player may want to make.
Is there any chance that this editor source could be implemented in other games of different engines? Unity for instance?
Thrive code is GPL licensed. This means that any software combination it is put into has to be entirely open source software that can be in total be licensed under the GPL. So Thrive code cannot be put to use in closed source products. Only other open source projects could make use of the thrive code, which I assume is the reason why the GPL license was originally selected for Thrive.
Ok. I’ll look for some other open source engines I could use
A new part ( for first time) should cost more evo points.
Like a new(first) pilus should cost more than adding another.
Otherwise, they should also evolve with creature, like it should only be able to defend , then as it evolves it becomes pointy and could be used for attack etc.
And nucleus too should have some evolution.
from a bunch of chromosome to nucleus.
I want to talk about how the evolution will take place in the firture of the game because I don’t want it to be like spore just put a limb on there with no evolution to evolve that limb if you’re confused here is a example: to evolve bones there should be a process first there must be mussels than tgose mussels should get stiff than you get bones (also the comparison of the bones should be effected what minerals where there at the time).
Hello! Welcome to the forums! To answer your question - yes, the editor will be similar to how you described. There won’t be set “parts” that you place onto your organism, you will have to manually create them over time. You won’t be able to grow an entire functioning leg within one generation. There’s a more detailed explanation on the Thrive Developer Wiki. The page is outdated, but still shows the main idea.
Wiki page -
Just a random idea I had: what if in the organism editor, a player did sculpt their own limbs and whatnot, but could also save certain structures they make so that at a later point they could use them for another organism or use those as a base for a new sculpting of a limb, maybe even across saves.
That idea has been brought up before as a way to help people who can’t sculpt very well to place like a “template” guide they can then gradually fill in.
Someone has probably already said it before, and I know I have on a different page, but I was thinking the creature editor would be similar to a terrain editor, where you grow the limbs and choose weather the limb is ridged or tentacle-like. If you choose ridged then you could choose where to put the joints, if you chose floppy then you choose if it has vertibrae bones or a squishy core. For joints you can also choose a range of motion.
hello, this is a bodybuilding post, things that bilateral symmetry multicellular animals use:
segment repetition is not uncommon in the animal world as the most obvious examples are arthropods and annelids, and even vertebrates have this, but only in the spinal column with no outside effects.
2) merging of segments
what do you do with a random group of segments? you merge them, in a Tagma, this process is called Tagmosis, Tagmas also specialize in things/tasks such as feeding, insects have Tagmata of the head, Chest and Abdomen.
3) formation of “heads”
another evolutionary trend is the formation of “heads” (the grouping of the brain, mouth and senses in front of the animal), this is good for you to see what is in front of you, and the mouth to handle food more easily and feel food before digestion.
So have some ideas for the macroscopic builder.
So main idea is to focus on layers
Wall of text warning, also sorry for any mispelt words or strange sentences
If its covering too much, I can split it up across other threads
1) Planes of symmetry
This would be just an upgraded version of the symmetry tool already in. Both vertical and horizontal. Can also use it as a cross-section tool. You can also delete, add or turn off planes at any time, with no cost. You can also just have planes for certain segments.
-fractal Symmetry (not sure how that would work)
-0 planes ( asymmetric)
-1 plane (Symmetric)
-2 or more planes (Radial symmetry (will go around the centre of mass or where you want)
So this would be able to scuplt the general shape of your organism under any skin/armour. You will start with the general shape from the first multicellular editor. It would also be free to add any amount to it, however when generating organism will fill in all unused space with a select cell type or whatever you choose and pay the points for (will have a view of cost throughout). Also applies to new limbs.
You also have a total mass and buoyancy, which will predict what sort of area you will be in.
You can also add stuff onto it:
holes (need a better name, stoma?)
this will let things (food/air/waste ect) go in or out your organism
would allow you to copy a certain part of your organism, including everything inside and outside the body plan. Would be done by dragging a box aroundwhat is wanted. Cost will be less than what it would be made from scratch) This creates a collapsable tab under body plan, which can be used to highlight and merge. Maybe also use the meatballs here?
Lets you assign a function (movement, attack, constant or other) which will come with its own neurons and muscles. Can be any shape, but larger costs more. Also can fuse limb attachments together
Strength and return-to-start/stay-in-new can be customised
Acts as a hinge (max 180 deg).
Expands and contracts. Needs to be connected to a fluid.
(not sure what they would do, but would go here)
3) Internal and External layers
Once you have a general bodyplan, underneath the bodyplan it will create these two layer tabs.
This would be constrained to the inside of your body plan
Each part will create a new tab under the Internal tab, and clicking on it will highlight that particular part
Each channel can contains a pipe(?) (transport), a tank (storage), and a valve/pump
- Gastro vascular channels (Gut/ lungs)
To start a gut, needs to connect to a (hole) from the bodyplan. It will start off being porous meaning it will try to extract everything from the material , but you can edit any stretch of it to make it more resistant (but will not extract from the material)
Can also make gas bladders to raise buoyancy
- Fluid channels
Fluids channels already come filled with fluid of choice (blood/ oxygen-carrying fluid, OxyToxy, slime, ect). You can also add specific organelles that produce the fluid (but at a high cost). These can either be closed circulation, or pump in/out of the creature. Only one fluid in a channel at a time
Moves a compound from on channel, to another. For example, O2 from lungs to blood, or OxyToxy from gut to venom glans.
These are used as a keybind macros and also use it to automate systems.
You have a Neuron cell, which can be set to a keybind, constant, or when a threshold is met. You can also set parts on slight delays and sequence.
Axons connect the different parts to the Neuron cell.
(i’m want it to be something that makes it easy to control, but also rewards you for getting more indepth. I just worry it may be too complicated )
-Bones/ Endo-Structural support
Solid bones will reduce buoyancy and increase structure. Can also use other materials for support
This is if you want a mix of different structures such as fat for energy storage and buoyancy, and denser tissues for more power and speed
Example (will add the other layers with time) (mass is made up)
(I will edit this and add to this later, when I have time)
Suction cups/ sesality
4) Multiple stage parts
So my idea to help combat some of the complexity is to take a page out of games turn-based like Civ ect. To have parts that you can evolve over several editor visits.
This is not premade parts, its a way of planning ahead when making a part.
This can be paused, or stopped for different editor visits.
You only pay the Mutation Points (MP) for the current stage
You can edit your plan at anytime in the editor
If you pause, you get any MP that were going to be used in that stage.
Stopping will get rid of all future plans
For example, on my example creature above, you may make the legs in 3 stages.
-So you would click a Multistage button, then make your first stage (upper limb of all 6 legs)
-Click Add to make a new stage
-Make the middle limb of all six legs and add blood channels, axons, muscles ect so it can still move (You will be given a budget of 100MP, but remember this will be taken from your next editor visit)
-Click Add to make a new stage
-Add onto your last stage with lower limbs of all 6 limbs and final touches.
-The editor will put the first stage on the creature and take the MP away (unless you don’t have enough, then it will pause it)
This isn’t just for limbs, can be used for the gastro-intestinal tract or whatever you want
I tried to make it as broad as possible, but I still think it still is limiting in terms the amount of diversity in the sea. The other two things is may be too complicated and too much of a jump from the current editor
When I get time again i will fill in what I missed and start work on the external. If there’s anything you want to ask, want to add, or disagree with, please @ me as I am working most days so may miss it. I tried to do my own spin/ add to what everyone in the thread said, but if I straight copied anything I’m sorry
Very intresting I like how you went through all od these. I just don’t want to know how many problens will devs face while making the macroscopic editor.
Do organs need to move inside the body? Muscles can be grouped with limbs, or organs themselves (not inter-organic), in the case of the heart and the lung.
Wouldn’t that just be a heart placed inside a brain?
This was a thing I didn’t like in spore. There were a lot of legs, but they didn’t change how fast you went, they all looked the same anyway. There should be a muscle slider, and the leg that goes faster should have larger muscles, if that’s how that works. Would it be too much if I ask for a wind tunnel simulation in the editor?
I don’t like limits like that. The reason I wouldn’t put 10 hearts should be because adding a second one doesn’t make my creature faster, not because the editor wants me to remove something for everything I added.
Designing the organ may be restricted, so you can’t design a heart shaped lung, you only change the things that matter, like increasing alveoli density, if that’s what matters.
How is it stored strategically? Is it about the center of mass?
How does bad placement work? My liver could be on the left instead of the right (if there was an empty region there) and nothing would be different.
Tail can be used for grabbing. Its just that it’s normal purpose is about balance, communication(for cats) etc. It is long and narrow, it should be classified as a limb. If a snake has organs at the back of its body, then it doesn’t have a tail. And there shoud be limbs that can’t move.
For auto evo, looking good should be enforced by making it also the efficient way, for example, by giving discounts for symmetry, if it doesn’t happen by itself.
The parts can be sculpted and then added to the larger organism, the placement is also custom. How can everything be designed on a single editor?
Can every organ be edited? I get how a gland can happen, its just syntesiser cells grouped together, but how to design a heart? It should be pre designed, and by design, I mean there is a way it looks, it doesn’t have to be like a steam engine simulator.
I can imagine auto filling used on the brain, and a plating added around it. But muscles? Do you suggest the ability of adding organs inside the limbs? I know woodpeckers move their heads a lot, but thought there would be a difference between the limbs and the segments.
This thread is really old. So hi there, if you’re reading this in your mail.
I think it should be the other way round. You place organs and that determines the creature’s shape.
And the shape of the creature isn’t constant. It can change after exiting the editor if the shape of the organs change.
If you decide to put rigid bones or an exoskeleton that is larger than than the region it covers, you can now place organs with respect to the bones, not just with respect to each other.
I think there can be a thrivepedia for organs. You can place organs designed by other players but you design the overall creature. So there are presets but they can be edited.
All of the evolutionary history of the organs are included with them, so that complex looking organ you added isn’t complex when you added, it gets there like a credit card payment. But if you edit it, it stops changing.
I don’t think the difficulty level should change the way organism editor works. It can be made by increasing the speed of auto evo or giving advantages to other species.
Mouth is the first hole in the species. It preceeds the tissue metaballs.
For example, if you have 2 hands, as you edit them in the part editor, they are updated on the organism. No need to delete them and add newly designed ones.
Are these related? Knowlage of biology isn’t needed for designing a bone.
It can be used to unlock the organeles the other cell has. That wouldn’t be random, or forcefully added.
Horisontal gene transfer is like a sexual reproduction with another species.
There should be a reason that forces the creatures to put a skull around their brains. There can be multiple hitboxes or just one, but the damage is spread among the organs, the first one to hit zero health kills the creature.
Skull is like a hard skin under a skin, no difficulty for its shape. For the spine, each of the vertebres could be a segment, so if you are making a giraffe, you can’t change where your front legs are connected(without using too many mutation points), to have a longer neck proportional to your body, you have to make the vertebres in your neck longer than the other vertebres.
Why? The creature owns the parts, there isn’t a communism. What you say is more appopriate if the definition of a “species” was blurry and every cell did a horisontal gene transfer with every other cell. Is that how it should be?
I think heads can be a single segment, so it is not necessary that the ear is also placed there
what is that?
This would be very interesting.
I wonder if ball bearings can evolve
The bombardier beetle* mixes two chemicals which react and exit the body
Isn’t this what normaly happens in the lung? The oxygen enters the blood via diffusion, the alveoli are there to increase the pressure. I didn’t get the venom gland thing. Do you need to eat it to store and later use it?
Even in unicellular, the cells have behavior and no neurons. Do you suggest designing the behavior from scratch once the multicellular starts?
A problem with long term plans is that the enviroment can change
I think there should be a default tissue (has axons, blood channels) and the limb is made from that
Have you seen any of the late multicellular editor concept art? Even if parts are made by the player, plopping them down still causes every same problem as premade parts (at least in terms of spontaneously evolving fully formed arm in one gone).
I meant evolving slowly, but having a seperate section in the organism editor for the parts, and being able to change the places of the organs in the larger editor.
which still require mutation points ↩︎
So not really a part editor, then? Because I assume most people will have played the evo game that starts with an S before, them hearing “part editor” will most likely result in them thinking about something that is very close to what that game has. As you now described your idea it is more likely than the part editor. I think you should come up with a new name for your idea rather than “part editor”.