Organism Building Feature

[Omicron (He who abuses the search function)]

In a nutshell (IIRC):
Microbe stage is a single cell, then once you unlock the ability for cells to bind together you reach multicellular. At this point you still have to edit the individual cells. Later on, you unlock more and more tools that make it easier (E.G. sculpting, copying parts, etc.) this is the Aware stage. Later on in Aware, you get more and more intelligent. Once you unlock the ability to use tools and the like, Awakening starts. This goes on until you are smart enough to make a tribe, which is where the Tribal stage starts, after which the Civilization stage begins (once you build a city), and after that the Industrial stage (when you invent an engine, most likely a steam one). Once you reach space, the Space stage starts.

IIRC the overlap between each stage should be pretty smooth, my personal idea would be that you could unlock new tools, but never lose them (I.E. in late aware you should still be able to modify different cells, but there would just not be any reason to unless you really want to minmax). I also don’t know how bad that will be for performance.

[thunder]

I have an idea for the organism editor and parts in the aware stage. What if you would have parts restricted to the biome/part of the map where you have mated? It would give you only parts that are usefull in this part of the map. But if you would get closer to another biome, you would get more parts from 2 or more biomes that are near the “mating site” . And the parts would have templates where you would create your parts.!

And also i like this idea of organism editor

[Omicron (He who abuses the search function)]

What would the scientific reason be though? While some organs might not be as useful in some areas, I can’t find a reason why some parts just can’t exist somewhere.

[DrHarry (The Mask Knight)]

yeah, plus the fact that some alien life might use organs differently from how life on Earth use them

[thunder]

Yeah but how will it work in game?
And what if it restrict only some parts?
And what about you would randomise some parts?

[DrHarry (The Mask Knight)]

for the most part you sculpt your own parts from scratch. though there will be some pre-made parts for those who don’t want to make they’re own.

[BurgeonBlas]

Wouldn’t parts be shaped by the shape of the coelom and other organs, and adjusted to change the size of the organs?

[BurgeonBlas]

It’s been 2 days, and this is nothing to do with the last post while still on topic, so I’ll double post.
Here is my idea for the organism editor. You would have 2 tools, an appendage/pit tool, and a layer tool. The layer tool can be used to define layers, add in fluid cavities, and change tissue properties. The append (appendage/pit) tool can made things that bulge in or out of the main body. These could have their shape or posistion changed. Pits close enough can be fused into a tube. These tools should be able to make anything that the player may want to make.

[Underfish (Humanity's earliest known ancestor)]

Is there any chance that this editor source could be implemented in other games of different engines? Unity for instance?

[hhyyrylainen]

Thrive code is GPL licensed. This means that any software combination it is put into has to be entirely open source software that can be in total be licensed under the GPL. So Thrive code cannot be put to use in closed source products. Only other open source projects could make use of the thrive code, which I assume is the reason why the GPL license was originally selected for Thrive.

[Underfish (Humanity's earliest known ancestor)]

Ok. I’ll look for some other open source engines I could use

[LightUpRise (AdarshRise)]

A new part ( for first time) should cost more evo points.
Like a new(first) pilus should cost more than adding another.
Otherwise, they should also evolve with creature, like it should only be able to defend , then as it evolves it becomes pointy and could be used for attack etc.

And nucleus too should have some evolution.
from a bunch of chromosome to nucleus.

[Tieline]

I want to talk about how the evolution will take place in the firture of the game because I don’t want it to be like spore just put a limb on there with no evolution to evolve that limb if you’re confused here is a example: to evolve bones there should be a process first there must be mussels than tgose mussels should get stiff than you get bones (also the comparison of the bones should be effected what minerals where there at the time).

[dan54]

Hello! Welcome to the forums! To answer your question - yes, the editor will be similar to how you described. There won’t be set “parts” that you place onto your organism, you will have to manually create them over time. You won’t be able to grow an entire functioning leg within one generation. There’s a more detailed explanation on the Thrive Developer Wiki. The page is outdated, but still shows the main idea.

Wiki page -

Organism Editor

[TwilightWings21 (Death From the Shadows)]

Just a random idea I had: what if in the organism editor, a player did sculpt their own limbs and whatnot, but could also save certain structures they make so that at a later point they could use them for another organism or use those as a base for a new sculpting of a limb, maybe even across saves.

[hhyyrylainen]

@TwilightWings21

could also save certain structures they make so that at a later point they could use them for another organism

That idea has been brought up before as a way to help people who can’t sculpt very well to place like a “template” guide they can then gradually fill in.

[Centarian (Alpha Centuari)]

Someone has probably already said it before, and I know I have on a different page, but I was thinking the creature editor would be similar to a terrain editor, where you grow the limbs and choose weather the limb is ridged or tentacle-like. If you choose ridged then you could choose where to put the joints, if you chose floppy then you choose if it has vertibrae bones or a squishy core. For joints you can also choose a range of motion.

[jose (TomatoSauecey)]

hello, this is a bodybuilding post, things that bilateral symmetry multicellular animals use:

1) repetition/segmentation
segment repetition is not uncommon in the animal world as the most obvious examples are arthropods and annelids, and even vertebrates have this, but only in the spinal column with no outside effects.

2) merging of segments
what do you do with a random group of segments? you merge them, in a Tagma, this process is called Tagmosis, Tagmas also specialize in things/tasks such as feeding, insects have Tagmata of the head, Chest and Abdomen.

3) formation of “heads”
another evolutionary trend is the formation of “heads” (the grouping of the brain, mouth and senses in front of the animal), this is good for you to see what is in front of you, and the mouth to handle food more easily and feel food before digestion.

[Scarn]

So have some ideas for the macroscopic builder.
So main idea is to focus on layers
Wall of text warning, also sorry for any mispelt words or strange sentences
If its covering too much, I can split it up across other threads

1) Planes of symmetry

This would be just an upgraded version of the symmetry tool already in. Both vertical and horizontal. Can also use it as a cross-section tool. You can also delete, add or turn off planes at any time, with no cost. You can also just have planes for certain segments.

-fractal Symmetry (not sure how that would work)
-0 planes ( asymmetric)
-1 plane (Symmetric)
-2 or more planes (Radial symmetry (will go around the centre of mass or where you want)

2)Body plan

So this would be able to scuplt the general shape of your organism under any skin/armour. You will start with the general shape from the first multicellular editor. It would also be free to add any amount to it, however when generating organism will fill in all unused space with a select cell type or whatever you choose and pay the points for (will have a view of cost throughout). Also applies to new limbs.
You also have a total mass and buoyancy, which will predict what sort of area you will be in.

You can also add stuff onto it:

• holes (need a better name, stoma?)
  this will let things (food/air/waste ect) go in or out your organism

• general segments
  would allow you to copy a certain part of your organism, including everything inside and outside the body plan. Would be done by dragging a box aroundwhat is wanted. Cost will be less than what it would be made from scratch) This creates a collapsable tab under body plan, which can be used to highlight and merge. Maybe also use the meatballs here?

• limb attachments
  Lets you assign a function (movement, attack, constant or other) which will come with its own neurons and muscles. Can be any shape, but larger costs more. Also can fuse limb attachments together

• Muscles
  Strength and return-to-start/stay-in-new can be customised

  1. Tendons
     Acts as a hinge (max 180 deg).
  2. Hydraulic
     Expands and contracts. Needs to be connected to a fluid.

• eyes
  (not sure what they would do, but would go here)

3) Internal and External layers

Once you have a general bodyplan, underneath the bodyplan it will create these two layer tabs.

3.1 Internal
This would be constrained to the inside of your body plan
Each part will create a new tab under the Internal tab, and clicking on it will highlight that particular part

-Channels
Each channel can contains a pipe(?) (transport), a tank (storage), and a valve/pump

1. Gastro vascular channels (Gut/ lungs)
   To start a gut, needs to connect to a (hole) from the bodyplan. It will start off being porous meaning it will try to extract everything from the material , but you can edit any stretch of it to make it more resistant (but will not extract from the material)
   Can also make gas bladders to raise buoyancy
2. Fluid channels
   Fluids channels already come filled with fluid of choice (blood/ oxygen-carrying fluid, OxyToxy, slime, ect). You can also add specific organelles that produce the fluid (but at a high cost). These can either be closed circulation, or pump in/out of the creature. Only one fluid in a channel at a time
3. Extractor
   Moves a compound from on channel, to another. For example, O2 from lungs to blood, or OxyToxy from gut to venom glans.

-Reproductive parts

-Neurons
These are used as a keybind macros and also use it to automate systems.
You have a Neuron cell, which can be set to a keybind, constant, or when a threshold is met. You can also set parts on slight delays and sequence.
Axons connect the different parts to the Neuron cell.
(i’m want it to be something that makes it easy to control, but also rewards you for getting more indepth. I just worry it may be too complicated )

-Bones/ Endo-Structural support
Solid bones will reduce buoyancy and increase structure. Can also use other materials for support

-General structure
This is if you want a mix of different structures such as fat for energy storage and buoyancy, and denser tissues for more power and speed

Example (will add the other layers with time) (mass is made up)

3.2 External
(I will edit this and add to this later, when I have time)
Skin
Armour
Setae
Horns/teeth
Membrane
Hyperdermic fangs
Suction cups/ sesality
Fins
Limbs

4) Multiple stage parts

So my idea to help combat some of the complexity is to take a page out of games turn-based like Civ ect. To have parts that you can evolve over several editor visits.
This is not premade parts, its a way of planning ahead when making a part.
This can be paused, or stopped for different editor visits.
You only pay the Mutation Points (MP) for the current stage
You can edit your plan at anytime in the editor
If you pause, you get any MP that were going to be used in that stage.
Stopping will get rid of all future plans

For example, on my example creature above, you may make the legs in 3 stages.
-So you would click a Multistage button, then make your first stage (upper limb of all 6 legs)
-Click Add to make a new stage
-Make the middle limb of all six legs and add blood channels, axons, muscles ect so it can still move (You will be given a budget of 100MP, but remember this will be taken from your next editor visit)
-Click Add to make a new stage
-Add onto your last stage with lower limbs of all 6 limbs and final touches.
-Click Finish
-The editor will put the first stage on the creature and take the MP away (unless you don’t have enough, then it will pause it)

This isn’t just for limbs, can be used for the gastro-intestinal tract or whatever you want

5) Problems

I tried to make it as broad as possible, but I still think it still is limiting in terms the amount of diversity in the sea. The other two things is may be too complicated and too much of a jump from the current editor

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When I get time again i will fill in what I missed and start work on the external. If there’s anything you want to ask, want to add, or disagree with, please @ me as I am working most days so may miss it. I tried to do my own spin/ add to what everyone in the thread said, but if I straight copied anything I’m sorry

[thunder]

Very intresting I like how you went through all od these. I just don’t want to know how many problens will devs face while making the macroscopic editor.