Lets figure out Thrive 0.4.0 guys


(The Third Duke of Silly) #42

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Interesting creature.
It’s literally just 3 hexes of cytoplasm.

Edit- image
Edit 2- Gen 3 of species Stankazi Legxa
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(lowskill) #43

Ok, I think now I’m ready to give some initial thoughts on balancing the game.
As you can see, in my last post I had described several issues with game balance. So, lets discuss which of them are actually issues and how to fix them
My thoughts:

  • Problem number one - clouds are too OP. In version 0.3.4 cloud collecting was not an option, in 0.4.0, on the other hand, clouds are too dense. You can hunt other cells, it is fun, but there is a rule of the most viable option - if there is an easy strat, everyone will just use it. And it really hurst the game. I think lowering cloud density to 80% of the current rate should make the game more interesting.
  • Problem number two - other cells are not a threat to you, because they are really easy to avoid. I think cell AI should not be complex, because they have no brains and they can’t be smart, so, let’s not touch that. Easy solution to the problem is to just make more cells. This can make the game too hard for other buids as well, so the solution should be more than that. I propose to adjust spawn rate with cell size. It makes sense - it is easier to reproduce when you are small. From a balance standpoint, this would make the game harder for abusers like me and easier for people who actually evolve and hunt stuff. The reason is that small cells are eating clouds and there are less resources for you to collect. On the other hand - there will be more prey for hunter builds.
  • Problem number three - auto-evo. I suggest auto-evo to work not just once every ten minutes, but also each time you enter the editor.
  • Problem nu,ber four - victory condition. Well, I guess we can do nothing with that atm.
  • Problem number five - spawn place. I actually really like how you are spawned for the first time - there is nothing around you and you have to search for resources. I suggest doing that for every evolution. . This actually is a huge nerf for my strat and it makes cheesing the game three times harder

(The Third Duke of Silly) #44

rip framerates
also
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What’s this biome?


(lowskill) #45

A banana biome obviously.
Also, I know adding more cells is not a good idea. That’s why I proposed another solution which takes less pc resources


(OrganismOverlord) #46

Could be an ancient species relating to the Simpsons.


#47

A Plant Run ( Another Chloroplast run)

Category: Early game

Name: No common name
Scientific Name: Untrustux pilaepsis

Expectations: Nothing will be much different than from the CA ( common ancestor ), the only difference will be glucose production which just means I’m looking for Ammonia and Phosphates a bit quicker and more often

Evolutions:
1st
I denote where Chloroplasts are by the addition of green capital C’s in their center, hopefully this helps in case anyone wants to follow the build process and give their own feedback on this run!

Grade: 9/10, Gameplay was simple with the abundance of ammonia and phosphates nearby. I was also quite speedy even with my more elongated and flattened front.

Category: Early game

Name: No common name
Scientific Name: Untrustux pilaepsis

Expectations: I expect it to play out vary similarly to Evo 1 being that I have only added two chloroplasts. My speed appears to have gone up by one when looking at the editor. I’m not sure why but maybe I’m more fluid-dynamic. Who knows… I expect this generation to be fairly easy and simple.

Evolutions:
2nd
A simple addition of two chloroplasts at the bottom sticking outwards for this generation.

I’m not quite sure why me cell looks like its doing a heel click with its Chlorophyll compared to the editor but hey maybe it’s Irish.

Grade: 6/10, This can be incredibly hard to play and you have to “leap frog” around the biome in order for you to survive. It can be an interesting build and I challenge you to play through to generation 15 with just this build and give your feedback! Glucose production is obviously not the reason this is hard but rather it’s conversion to ATP makes it this hard as I stated before its like “leap frog”. I ended up dying twice while playing this generation. I might have just been unlucky with this run though as I didn’t hear the sound for the editor and just randomly noticed it. Maybe I was too engrossed in the game and I think I didn’t hear the sound.

Category: Early game

Name: No common name
Scientific Name: Untrustux pilaepsis

Expectations: I have added two more chloroplasts to the Plant plus I have added two cytoplasm in order to combat the lack of ATP. Hopefully this can make a big enough change in order for me to make it at least after one death.

Evolution:
3rd
I’ve added a notation for the Cytoplasm otherwise you kind of get lost in the grey, and no one wants that.

This is the little feller out and about getting ready for Mitosis.
Screenshot%20(19)

Grade: 8/10, The Two cytoplasm seemed to have helped. One must watch out for Oxytoxy being shot out from around you. The large problem with being a plant is being a plant and sitting around waiting to die. A blade of grass or a tree can take a beating and bounce back, so too can this cell but only if you can get away from your predator.

Category: Midgame

Name: No common name
Scientific Name: Untrustux pilaepsis

Expectations: Glucose is still going to get capped because I have no where to store it and ATP will still be a problem because I can’t produce it fast enough.

Evolution:
4th
The two Chloroplast and two Cytoplasm addition continued with this evolution hopefully making ATP less of a problem.

Just sitting and waiting for ATP so that my offspring arn’t destined to die.

Grade: 8/10, I could still not produce ATP fast enough as hypothesized. I was running and stopping sometimes jutting quickly towards ammonia only to need to stop short so that I could live, damage occurs when you have no ATP.

Category: Midgame

Name: No common name
Scientific Name: Untrustux pilaepsis

Expectations: With the 10 added cytoplasm I should be able to keep up with ATP at least enough for me to not sit in dangerous situations. Currently there is no benefit to go a pure Chlorophyll build, maybe when cell walls are implemented they will give a higher hp making it easier to deal with damage.

Evolution:
5th
Placed the Cytoplasm a little randomly with no real image in mind. Hopefully this guy does well in the world.

Peaceful.

I was too slow to get some Phosphate clouds luckily I hit this patch right before it dissipated
Screenshot%20(27)

Grade 9/10, I am a Plant. I do not need to worry about anything but my health and the continuance of my species. I only acted like a root searching out for Phosphates. This is thriving. Oxytoxy was not really a threat because I could see the cells and move accordingly and not have to stop for ATP. This was a very relaxing run

Category: Midgame

Name: No common name
Scientific Name: Untrustux pilaepsis

Expectations: With this evolution I wanted to see if I added Chlorophyll if it would be more taxing for me to move because of my size. I still have all of the previously added Cytoplasm so who knows. Int he previous generation there were no problems with ATP production, maybe this will be the same way just with a quicker Glucose cap.

Evolution:
6th
I added 2 more Chlorophyll. This time I added them to the rop

Grade: 9/10, exactly the same as Evolution 5

Category: Midgame

Name: The Phosphate hunter
Scientific Name: Untrustux venenatepsis

Expectations: I thought to myself how can I make this different, well plants are known for their chemical warfare… that’s right this plant is poisons. I don’t think much will change actually but I should be able to stay a bit safer and not loose as much Hp as I have been before, although i might end up killing myself too.

Evolution:
7th ( A speciation of Untrustux pilaepsis )
The Oxytoxy was placed at the front of the cell.

Turned to preemptive strike the cell shooting around. Safety was acquired.

Grade: 9/10, Never died and started playing in reverse so that “s” and my mouse pointed in the opposite direction of where I wanted to go in order to protect my back end. This just made life easier I wouldn’t say it was broken yet but gameplay will not differ until I leave the “plant” path. I could at Nitrogen Fixing Plastids but that just makes life even easier even. This life is known as Phosphate hunter as there is nothing else to do.


(He who abuses the search function) #48

FYI: Chloroplasts create glucose, so you still need mitochondria to create ATP (It’s kinda weird how a single cytoplasm can perform glycolisis fast enough to support multiple organelles, I’m not sure if that’s supposed to happen)


#49

I think this is going to be overhauled because of the coming “Biome” update. I was reading the dev forum and it looks like there will be different amounts of compounds depending on which biome you are in, and the abundance of certain compounds will be higher in some regions than others. This will be like having more hydrogen sulfide at the vents versus at the shallows.

To me this is just evolution and the strive to survive and reproduce. This happens naturally and I think makes sense to happen and as stated above the biomes will help with biodiversity in respect to the player.

There are stats that the cells have so maybe we just need higher variation towards the poles of aggression. So there shouldn’t be very many centrist cells.

I couldn’t agree more, plus this is a great time to run the script as the rest of the game isn’t in the middle of running. So you hit the editor button it then generates where you are placed and generates the cells around you, then it runs auto-evo. Maybe this can be hidden behind a loading screen or just have it wait in the editor for a couple seconds. I only suggest that the world be generated because if I remember correctly auto-evo only works on the cells that are in your farthest zoomed out field right now ( This will probably be updated once cells are being saved to a document for the stats menu and the clade diagram)

I think when auto-evo is updated and the biomes are integrated this wont be a problem, at least not as big as a problem. I remember in older games you couldn’t even play as far as a fifth evolution.

I think that this should probably stay roughly the same but have ammonia and phosphates not be generated in the placement, although you can just store up before hand for quick evolution to cheese the game.


(lowskill) #50

Even when considering the “Biome” update, I feel like average cloud density should be a bit smaller.

I dont like the idea of making everything more agressive towards player - Thrive should feel like a believable world and not a weird survival game. I thnk just having more cells competing for clouds will be enough

Yeah, the ability to store resources can be a problem, probably there should be an upper limit on the resources you can pass to the next generation


(GROMALOCARIS) #51

Really easy to avoid? Well let me introduce you to jetfighter bacteria (as I like to call em)
[Forgot to take image]
They are very fast toxin bacteria that take down larger cells in groups of 5-10 and are belgiuming everywhere, they will swarm over you at first sight and bombard you with toxins, and if you run away you’ll just stumble upon another group of them right in front of you which basically pins you down between them. Its a constant persecution where you have to constantly be moving and dodging toxins while trying to reach the compounds which are most likely also swarmed with them, that was a monstrocity autoevo created in one of my playthroughs

Edit- Belgium why didnt it reply properly, gime a second
Edit2- oh wait it did


#52

Hey Grom, looks like other are getting a bit more difficult outcomes then us, if you run through a playthrough and see some of them or bacteria like them please send a picture. I keep on seeing people with these deadly worlds and I just wan’t one lol


(GROMALOCARIS) #53

They basically just looked like tiny generic blue bacteria with a toxin vacuole, oh yeah they were small hard-to-hit targets too so even toxin cells were belgiumed


#54

ah okay, I remember seeing someone with a bacteria the size of the starter cell so I wasn’t sure if these guys were super beings too


(GROMALOCARIS) #55

Nah, just tiny blokes, but speedy, shooty shooty, and had the most aggro ai ive ever seen, and were e v e r y w h e r e


#56

I know that mitochondria are used for creating ATP at faster rates but I wanted to do a stick mainly with chloroplasts. Cytoplasm was added because I didn’t want the efficiency of the mitochondria. I figured just going with Cytoplasm would be a more interesting run and didn’t want to make it to easy on myself.

In my second evolution of Untustux pilaepsis i didn’t have any cytoplasm and I couldn’t keep up with the ATP needed for movement. I would quickly run out, although osmoregulation wasn’t a problem when sitting still.

In the third evolution the cytoplasm allowed me to move for a while but it wasn’t keeping up with glucose production or my ATP consumption, it just meant that I didn’t have to sit around as long as before


(Untrustedlife) #57

Aggressive toxy bacteria are fun


(The Third Duke of Silly) #58

You are getting very strong words on very strong paper about these new toxies, by the by.


(lowskill) #59

Links to our little balancing discussion. Everyone is invited to join.
Lets figure out Thrive 0.4.0 guys - the beginning, where I analyse reasons behind my no-evo run being a success.
Lets figure out Thrive 0.4.0 guys - solutions proposed by myself
Lets figure out Thrive 0.4.0 guys - Colt44’s comments on my thoughts
Lets figure out Thrive 0.4.0 guys - my responce


(Evolution4Weak) #60

you should make that post or the original post a wiki post so that other people can edit it and add their own links


(lowskill) #61

“I dunno what these new organneles do” build

I think it is time to do some early game builds, and I’ve decided that I’m ready to test some new organneles.
I’ll skip expectations this time.
Start game:
1st evolution: 1 Nitrogen fixing plastid (NFP), 1 metabobolome
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Well, I finally got a build which feels different from the rest. The game became harder, because I needed to collect more stuff, but my stats havent increased at all. I had no flagella, therefore I was always maxed out on ATP and I felt like metabolosome was redundant.
And let’s talk about NFP. Seriously, it costs 80 mp, but it does pretty much nothing. You get, like, 1 ammonium per 20 seconds. This is the definition of useless.
Grade: 8/10, still too easy, but I finally managed to die somehow.

Early game:
Evolution 2: 2 flagella, 1 vacuole, 1 cytoplasm

I just increased my atp consumption to 22 per second and found no glucose clouds. Luckily, I somehow managed to get into the editor before dying

Ev. 3: chloroplast, chemoplast, cytoplasm
To deal with my atp consumption I’ve placed organelles that can generate glucose from everything.
And the game crashed (granted, it was the first time the game crashed for me). I played with this build a bit, but I forgot to take a screenshot.
I managed to balance out my atp consumption, so the game became easy again. This is actually really interesting - game is hard only when you screw up in the editor. Further research is needed, I request doing more early game builds.
I would give this 7/10 overall